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  1. #1
    adrenaline
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Eliptical v. Square Tankers and pump size

    Does your department have eliptical or square tankers and what size pumps do you put on them? What kind of water capacity do you carry and how does all of this effect your ISO rating? Which do you think looks better? I appreciate any and all comments!


  2. #2
    e33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    Thinking in terms of shapes, the square will always hold more water, but for those who like the show of it...shiny elliptical works better...(as long as you want the tradeoff of less water). Getting a big pump seems to make sense to me, why not be able to function as a water supply or relay unit, or at least be able to fill yourself faster and from draft. Also carry suction hose.

    [This message has been edited by e33 (edited December 08, 1999).]

  3. #3
    K A
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    ---What kind of water capacity do you carry and how does all of this effect your ISO rating___


    If I lived in texas I'd be thinking about only one thing, moving 250 gpm. Not a single department in the entire state has ever proven to ISO they can shuttle and consequently they all have 9's and 10's ratings.

  4. #4
    e33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    K A....Where in the heck do you get this stuff....or how do you remember it. Lots of good info though, thanks.

  5. #5
    T.D / 1122
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    We are currently working the specs for a new tanker as well.. I think the 2000 gal. oliptical tank will end up being the tank of choice!..However I'm partial to the square tankers with alot of compartment space. Sure they me be alot bigger, but on the flip side if the pump is big enough and they have tools and air pacs on board then they can also be used as a combination apparatus vs. just as a support vehicle if need be.. I guess I just believe that if you're going to build a truck.. then spec. it where it can be utilized to the fullest! We've actually thrown in the idea for a 750gpm pump, but not to sure if that idea will fly very long! Sorry to steal some of your thunder "adrenaline".. just felt like typing I guess!

  6. #6
    Dalmation90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    If it is only for water supply, then ellipitical helps get the center of gravity lower, and it's probably a little stronger then having right angles...'ever notice only fire trucks have square tanks?
    Square tanks let you have side compartments and ladders, and hose bed on the top.

    My area relies on pump off operations (yes, we have portable ponds too, but usually it's easier to pump then dump)...so the trucks have 1000gpm+ pumps, and the piping to move it (dual 3" or single 4" tank to pumps minimum)

    There are trucks in our area that can pull in with 2500 gallons and deliver it at 1250gpm...it may only last two minutes, but it's one hell of a blitz attack

    My problem with small pumps on tankers is when you can't use portable ponds, small pumps really hurt your ability to unload...500gpm takes 6 minutes to dump a 3000gwt...1000gpm can do it in three. Probably not a big cost/weight difference from 500 to a 1000.

    Key with any shuttle is fill 'em fast, dump 'em fast. Drive safe and sane speeds (and ISO will only let you go 35 anyway for credit). Use the biggest gravity dumps you can fit...put in plenty of good vents...have well designed baffles that don't interefere with water flowing to the dump or pump suction...have big pipes to your pump -- 4" if you fit them...dual 3" if 4 won't fit. Have big discharges (4" piping from pump, from the top of pump) to pump off; have big fills (overhead, or dual 4" tank fills)

    Matt

  7. #7
    K L Westcot
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Nice, but have any of you checked out the Vaccunm fill? We have a 3500 gal. can suck up or dump in 3+min. Only problem is can't fill from a hydrant it seems, or squirt water right on the fire. Hope to be able to add a 2nd one to our equipment line soon. Put a suction on the tank as you come to the draft point.

    keep the sparks cool

  8. #8
    Ricky Bodin
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We have two tankers in our dept. Both are elliptical tanks. The oldest is a 2000 gal w/ 500 gpm pump. This truck worked well as all we do 95% of the time is use it to shuttle. The new tanker is a 3100 gal w/ 1250 gpm pump. We went with the bigger pump on this one so that we could be a little more flexible in using it as a nurse tank or in a relay w/ LDH laid by our engines. WE like the elliptical tanks because they make the trucks safer to drive and the lack of compartment space doesn't hurt us as they have enough space to carry what little equipment you need to shuttle water anyway. ( porta tanks outside on a rack,various adapters in the compartments along with a collar to mate the two tanks together). Both also carry hard suction for the rare occasions (only once in the fifteen years that I have been here) that we do not have a source pumper @ draft.

  9. #9
    DD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This is a for Matt. Please explain how an eliptical tank can have a lower center of gravity than a rectangular (square ?) tank of the same volume and length.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lehighton Pa
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    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by e33 View Post
    Thinking in terms of shapes, the square will always hold more water, but for those who like the show of it...shiny elliptical works better...(as long as you want the tradeoff of less water). Getting a big pump seems to make sense to me, why not be able to function as a water supply or relay unit, or at least be able to fill yourself faster and from draft. Also carry suction hose.

    [This message has been edited by e33 (edited December 08, 1999).]

    If there are needs for tankers on a scene, why would you take a water hauling / tanker out of the shuttle to do supply? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of hauling that much need water? Call for another engine.
    Last edited by ffemt404; 11-28-2007 at 12:13 PM.

  11. #11
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    Berks County, PA
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    Our tanker is square with 3500 gals of water, a 1000 gpm pump, three 10" dumps and two 4" direct tank fills.

    Personally, I have no real preference between square or elliptical tanks, per se. The main difference is that square tanks generally allow for more hosebed space and a bit more compartment space to be built onto the rig. Whether you need that or not depends on what you want to do with the tanker.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffemt404
    If your there are needs for tankers on a scene, why would you take a water hauling tanker out of the shuttle to do supply? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of hauling that much need water? Call for another engine.
    The key to this is flexibility. With a 1000 gpm pump on board, I have the option of having our tanker (i) stop at the end of the supply line, drop its dump tanks for the next in engine, fill one and go to fill, (ii) stop at the end of the supply line, hook up to it and nurse the attack engine, then stay around to serve as the supply pumper, or (iii) put the tanker on a hydrant as a supply pumper, in the parts of our area where we have those cool little water tree gizmos.

    Scenario (i) makes sense in cases where I know from the start I need big water sustained for a period of time, Scenario (ii) is great for one or two room(s)-and-contents, where the combined 4000 gals in the engine and tanker can support two 150 gpm attack lines for 13 minutes (which should be more than sufficient), and Scenario (iii) is kind of obvious.

    So, with our tanker setup, I can pump 1000 gpm, dump 1000 gpm, and fill at 1000+ gpm. What more could you ask for??

  12. #12
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    Holy 8 year old thread batman !!!!!

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1500chevy97 View Post
    Holy 8 year old thread batman !!!!!
    Didn't even look...good question anyway...

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