1. #1
    Jim M.
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question CAFS - Hale vs. Waterous

    OK - what's the scoop? Who has Hale and is just tickled to death with it? Who has Waterous and wishes they had bought stock in the company? Who has either one and regrets their choice? I now have 100 pounds of literature and think I understand the concepts. What do you KNOW now and what do you THINK now, that is different that what you thought you knew when you bought your present equipment?

  2. #2
    mfdc1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    After much research we bought the waterous and have been very happy with the purchase.. It has performed flawlessly and is very easy to operate. My department is running it first due on a quint. If you would like questions answered feel free to Email me at mfdc1@aol.com.. i do wish i had bought stock in the company..

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim M.
    OK - what's the scoop? Who has Hale and is just tickled to death with it? Who has Waterous and wishes they had bought stock in the company? Who has either one and regrets their choice? I now have 100 pounds of literature and think I understand the concepts. What do you KNOW now and what do you THINK now, that is different that what you thought you knew when you bought your present equipment?
    Jim, I'm at the point in a new purchase of a pump and CAFS system. I'm looking at the differents in different companies, Waterous, Hale, Darley etc. Right now I need specs and feedback. I'm going with a midship pump and I want air compressor that will put out 200 scfm. Do you have input for me?

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    130

    Default

    We are running a 2004 waterous eclips uint there service is great, the knockdown unbelivable, we are now specing a fast attack with there 500/150. The thing that you need to do no matter whos unit you buy is start by talking to the pump people not the truck builder most of the problems in our area have been builder install related,you need easy acess for matinance and adjustments,spec with a direct tank fill, default the foam system on acess panels for all adjustments and filters,and oil sight glasses and then use the system every time that you go out, and train and test with it bring in pople to teach you how to run the system then people that use it for fire attack

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Posts
    396

    Default

    "The thing that you need to do no matter whos unit you buy is start by talking to the pump people not the truck builder. Most of the problems in our area have been builder install related"

    That's why you should go with Darley. They build the pump and the truck, the only apparatus manufacturer that does. They are the only pump manufacturer that offers a lifetime warranty. Plus, their CAFS system is the easiest to use.

    Ask Neal Brooks from Darley about his "60 second challenge" that no other CAFS manufacturer has taken him up on. His sight is
    http://www.cafsinfo.com/
    Last edited by firepiper1; 09-30-2006 at 12:51 PM.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Above The 49th
    Posts
    80

    Default CAFS Waterous/Hale

    I've delivered a number of Waterous Eclipse CAFS in Western Canada from Yellowknife in the NWT to a number of FD's in B.C. and have 2 new HALE CAFSPro's just delivered to a suburb of Vancouver.

    Vancouver has just ordered 13 Smeal CAFS High Pressure Engines and they had both firms come and do a demo for the FD witnessed and tested by the FD and they went with Waterous partly because Waterous has been building CAFS for quite a bit longer and Hale had only just come out with their new version of a CAFS after their first version wasn't very successful.

    Each have their own features/advantages/benefits. I think it's in the "eye of the buyer" as to what works. Both firms will work with you to show their features/advantages and then you can go from there. Pay particular attention to the plumbing and I'd suggest the Midship Pump version vs the PTO style.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    We've got two Darley midship pumps and I'm NOT at all impressed.And as long as I have anything to say about it,there will never be another Darley pump in this Dept.Neither one of these pumps is high frequency use and you can see/document gradual failure every year on their annual pump tests.Our Hales,however,consistantly pass test with flying colors with no degradation of performance.Plus we've always had a very good response from Hale on any questions regarding their product line. T.C.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Habfan11
    Jim, I'm at the point in a new purchase of a pump and CAFS system. I'm looking at the differents in different companies, Waterous, Hale, Darley etc. Right now I need specs and feedback. I'm going with a midship pump and I want air compressor that will put out 200 scfm. Do you have input for me?
    We have a 2002 Darley CAFS in a Quint. It does work very well when it works. We have had our fair share of problems. The problems have been mostly parts availablilty. We are now looking at new pumpers we are looking around at others manufacturers. We recently had a demo of the waterous and it was user friendly and the operation seemed more consistent then our current Darley in the fleet. No matter what I would good with the 200cfm compressor.
    Good luck.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    95

    Default

    "60 second challenge"? Never heard of it, must be a good secret. I only have 19 years in the fire service, 17 years in the fire equipment industry, getting my third CAFS engine this year but I have not aware of the "60 second challenge", not as many years as others. I do work for a manufacturer and do not promote our products per the rules of the website. Unfortunately stock is not available because it is a privately held company.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreggGeske
    "60 second challenge"? Never heard of it, must be a good secret.
    If you never heard of it, go to Neal Brook's website and inquire about it. It is not directed at firefighters. It is for pump manufacturers and has to do with the ease of operation of Darley's CAFS. I first heard about it in Wildwood, NJ at their state's firefighters conference.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 10-05-2006 at 10:08 PM.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Madison, NJ USA
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Hello All,

    Been using CAFS since 1998 with great success. I've been in the fire service since 1977. Have fought many fires using plain water, with both straight bore and fog nozzles. Neither can compare to the knockdown, cooling and extinguishing power of CAFS.

    Our system is a PTO system, made then by Pneumax, which was purchased by Waterous in 2001. Waterous has dropped the Pneumax name but not quality, reliability and dependability of the Pneumax product. Knowing how CAFS works, I can say the Hale is the only one that “does it” differently than the rest. Waterous, Darley, Pierce and others do it about the same. One of the differences between them is in the quality of the air compressor that they use. Waterous uses a GHH RAND compressor. The RAND compressor, in my opinion, is the "Rolls Royce" of compressors. Waterous's product can be installed on any pump and will work with and any electronic foam proportioner. Or they sell the Eclipse CAFS which is with their pump. Most of the Waterous CAFS units include 3 days of operational training at your fire station when the truck is delivered. The training is included with the purchase. Not an extra charge. The training is done by Waterous certified CAFS instructors who are firefighters who use and understand CAFS.

    The suggestion to work with the CAFS manufacturer is a good one as they know their product and can help the OEM install the CAFS unit correctly.

    Here is a web site that has a lot of CAFS information. http://www.compressedairfoam.com/com...irfoam.com.htm

    Hope this helps.

    Captain Lou
    "Got Foam?"

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,586

    Default

    We have a 2000 class A engine with a 1000 gpm 1000 gal tank 40 gal foam tank with a waterous pnuemax Cafs system. Waterous sent an expert FF qualified instructor to our station for a weekend of classroom and hands on training when we took delivery. We have been extremely happy with the system , both in quality and ease of use.It did require a little time to get comfortable with setting it up to flow CAF's the way we want it at the nozzle mostly re-teaching ourselves to think differently on how you attack fire. The system takes very little to put into operation & transitioning from straight water to wet foam to really dry shaving cream is done with minimum effort.
    We have all four pre-connect cross-lays and the deck gun piped to the system, so we can lay down an impressive blanket in no time flat. The way our truck is set up you can control each individual discharge to flow water , wet foam or dry clingy foam depending on the assignment of that line. It certainly makes a limited amount of water go a lot farther.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    IF you've purchased a CAFS pumper recently, what was the upcharge to add CAFS (assuming a 1000+ gpm pump) to the truck?

    What did you buy, brand, how many lines etc?

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,586

    Talking

    Neiowa : When we built ours in 2000 it was about a 25 K upgrade for the waterous system with the 200 CFM compressor and the 40 gallon foam cell for the tank, nozzles etc. I don't know what the current pricing is. Don't forget to price in a foam tank fill pump. Lifting 5 gallon pails of concentrate up to the top of the tank to refill is a royal pain in the *****. We are retrofitting a fill pump now.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    820

    Default

    I agree. Eclipse is the way to go. Have 1 on a rescue-quint with auto-on foam and automatic compressor spin-up on a 6 second delay. Foam and CAFS is a nobrainer and you have to actually try to mess it up.

    Have another rescue-pumper on order with the exact same system.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register