Thread: River pump iinnovation question.
03-16-2000, 12:47 AM #1Sand Creek LynnFirehouse.com Guest
River pump iinnovation question.
We are putting together a pump package [truck mounted], to fill tankers from a dry hydrant for a rural department that shuttles water to folding tanks at the fire scene.
The bright idea of the day is......
truck mount the pump,[truck that stays at the fill site.] 1800gpm and instead of filling by 1 or 2, 4 in. LDH, construct a "tower" on the truck and top fill having a 6" pipe going up high enough and with 2, 90 degree elbows on top to drop the water in the manhole on top of our tankers. Tanker drives along side and water goes in. No muss, no fuss, no cuss.
Shazam! Hookup problems are gone and less time involved for our ISO test.
Am I forgetting something here?
Have you done this before?
What do I need to consider?
[This message has been edited by Sand Creek Lynn (edited March 16, 2000).]
03-16-2000, 06:46 AM #2Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
I'm a fan of the "top-fills" because they hit one of the big time-taking events and shorten it...plus uses less manpower.
On the dry hydrants, make sure they can draft 1800gpm -- I'm thinking you might need dual dry hydrants & suctions to the pump to push that volume
*BUT* my one concern (and it's only because I've never seen one of these in use -- just magazine pics) is what is the spillage like? i.e. -- What happens on the 5 below night when your filling tankers -- is the truck becoming ice encrusted? Does someone need to stand at the fill site shoveling sand for the next incoming tanker?
You also need a fairly good number of tankers equipped with the top fills. In my area, that's tough since most of the tankers are dual role Engine-Tankers with full hose beds...and to purchase a bunch of tankers through the region with the top fills could be a 10 or 15 year project before you would have enough to support a large shuttle.
Just my thoughts
03-16-2000, 02:16 PM #3SBLGFirehouse.com Guest
We run a 1250 frontmount on a 4x4 IHC 4900 for tanker filling with 2 - 6" suctions in the water we can fill at 1400-1600 gpm depending on the tankers plumbing/venting. We fill using LDH to a manifold then 2 50 or 100 foot lengths of 3" with a cam locks. I agree the overhead fill would work well as far a reducing hook up and disconect times , however if you are in a limited access area that forces the tankers to do any more then pull up and stop you are losing time, we carry 4000' LDH on our unit and can lay out what ever it takes so the tankers have easy drive through access.We controll the water flow at the point of filling with a manifold and let the pressure gov do the work at the other end.
As far as dry hydrants we are having trouble with them plugging up with Zebra mussels so we have opted to draft directly from the source ( helps to have 4x4)
Good luck there are no perfect answers for every situation thats what makes it a chalange.
03-16-2000, 08:50 PM #4Batt #2Firehouse.com Guest
I read the article about the 4x4 from Wis. It appears to be a very good draft rig. If you want to draft 1800 gpm you have to think about suction size. Anything over 1500 gpm needs another six inch suction.
If you want to speed up hose time use storz fitting or the two handle lockers
03-17-2000, 12:21 AM #5pvfr fyrfyterFirehouse.com Guest
Another option instead of building the truck to use this overhead fill is to build a trailer that could be pulled behind a pickup and hook up to the draft engine via ldh at whatever is the best spot for refilling. Designing a fill spout on a unit will require some very close quarter driving along with some movable joints on the engine. The trailer will reduce these concerns and will add a degree of maneuverability to your refill operations.
03-17-2000, 04:16 AM #6fyrgeekFirehouse.com Guest
Here is my two cents worth. My last department utilized a 8' piece of 3" PVC pipe with a 45 degree angle with a PVC strainer on the end of it. The base had a 2.5" NS thread and a handle made out of a 3" tee reduced to about 1"PVC. It worked out for us due to the fact we could just pull up and the fill site and use this to fill the top fills or disconnect the "fill device" and use the 2.5" for filling the rest of the tenders. Like I said just my two cents. I hope what ever you try works for you. I wish that I could send you a picture of it, however I don't have one.
North Star VFD
03-17-2000, 09:06 PM #7SBLGFirehouse.com Guest
I forgot to add that the one ISO advantage i think to the overhead fill is they dont rate you based on your pumps rating but on what the fill is actually doing. If LHS is reading this maybe he could clarify this.
03-17-2000, 09:25 PM #8Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
The ISO limitation on Fire Department Supply for water is the least of the following:
- Capacity of Source pumping equipment
- Capacity of the Delivery equipment
- Capacity of the Fireground pumping equipment
Which makes sense -- if you have tankers that can move 1000gpm over the route, and a 1000gpm pumper at the fire, but can only fill at 750gpm, you only get credit for 750gpm. Have 1500gpm pumpers at fill and fireground, but only enough tankers to move 500gpm, you get 500gpm credit. It's kinda demonstration for credit -- if you can document you use two suctions and push 1800+ out of your 1500gpm pump, you get the 1800 fill rates.
The travel time of Tankers is fixed -- ISO assumes 35 mph, and except for long runs on very good roads that's probably a good practical number.
What you can speed up is the fill/dump times, and the overhead fill is a neat way to eliminate make/break times & reduce manpower at the fill site.
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