1. #1
    Pilgrim
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking LDH Reel Practical?

    Does anyone out there have any experience with large diameter hose reel trucks? We are looking into one, however, there is an enormous amount of skepticism regarding them. Any first hand experiences good or bad would be appreciated. What are the strengths and weaknesses? I don't see many of them in use to speak of, so I am skeptical myself. I would much rather get opinions from those on the line rather than salesmen!
    I personally figure if they were so great, more departments would be using them. Any help would be appreciated.

    John

  2. #2
    SBLG
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    We are currently running a '97 IHC 4900 Saulsbury LDH truck set up as follows:

    IHC 4900 series chassis with 300hp DT530
    Marmon Harrington 4x4 Conversion
    Hale CSD 1250 Front Mount ( pump will pump 1750 from draft with dual 6" suctions)
    Hannay Hydraulic reel with 4000 feet 5" Hose
    Saulsbury Aluminum Body
    NO Water

    We set the truck up for water supply only and have had very good luck with it. We are able to lay 4000 feet hose go to draft and supply a manifold with 850-1000 gpm in 12-13 min with only two men. We also use the unit for tanker filling again we are able to fill tankers at 1400-1500 gpm with only two people. The unit deploys hose very fast , pick up is better then a standard hose bed. We are able to pick it up in 30-45 min with 4 people. We spent a lot of time talking to people who ran this type truck and took there good and bad point into consideration. Over all this truck has changed the way we do things here and opened up many new water sources for us. IF you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

    Chris


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  3. #3
    DFDGREG
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Chris, would you recomend one of these reel's for use on an engine or strictly for use as a water supply?

    Greg
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    [This message has been edited by DFDGREG (edited July 23, 2000).]

  4. #4
    Fyrtrks
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    I used to deliver for Saulsbury and we also did a unit for Tavener Florida. I am not sure of the spelling but it is close. It was much like Sister Bay's but it did not have a pump.

    ------------------
    Dan Jenkins
    Fyrtrks

  5. #5
    SBLG
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Greg,

    Based on conversations with other departments they like them on attack engines. I believe there is a county in Florida that runs them on all attack engines. I spoke with several departments on the East coast that have them and like them. The one dept. no longer uses them due to all hydrants in district now.
    So i guess to answer your question yes i would not be afraid to use them on a attack engine.
    Chris

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    [This message has been edited by SBLG (edited July 23, 2000).]

  6. #6
    M G
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    In New Jersey, Middlesx Boro (Somerset or Middlesx County) has a Pierce with an LDH reel, North Wildwood (Cape May County) also has one on a Mack Chassis, Washington Valley (Somerset County) has one as well. Mortlake, Conn. Has them ("Dalmatian90" posts here, this is his company).

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    The information presented herin is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

  7. #7
    Pilgrim
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    MG,

    Are those units being used as primary attack engines? Or as a hose truck with a large pump for long lays? I am wondering about the validity of them being used as a first due engine due to the sacrifice of rear compartments for storage.

    Thanks

    John

  8. #8
    M G
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The following departments (that I last recall of) have Reel equipped engines (their exact use is uncertain to me, however they appear to be more traditional designed engines). None of these engines is strictly a reel and pump truck that I know of.

    New Jersey:
    1. Middlesex Boro (Beechwood or Beechwood Heights Fire Co. unsure exact name)(Somerset County, maybe Middlesex County).
    Try: (908) 356-1900
    2. Washington Valley Fire Co (Somerset County)
    Try: (732) 356-1432
    3. Wildwood Fire Department (Cape May County?)
    4. Slackwood Fire Co (Mercer County?)

    I hope this helps, if I can dig up more stuff I'll post it for ya.

    ------------------
    The information presented herin is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

    [This message has been edited by M G (edited July 23, 2000).]

  9. #9
    LHS'
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Seminole County FL went through 3 generations of pumpers with 750 water tanks over a 30 year period. Approximately 30 rigs. They worked just fine as engines, hose layers and EMS/medic units.

    If you learn how to load the hose right, have someone build it with a clue, you'll do fine. Strawpump PA near Pittsburg had a very conventional E-ONE with a roll up door over the reel and a conventional hose bed over their reel.

  10. #10
    SBLG
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Holland Town ship in the central part of Wisconsin also has a reel with a standard hose bed over the top. Underhill VT runs a attack pumper with a reel 2500+- hose with a 500 tank with a front mount pump.

    Like LHS says you need to work with a builder that understands reels and the big picture of how they work in the field not just how to hook it up and paint it.

    Chris


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  11. #11
    MetalMedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    A local department in this area has one on their Pond Pumper to use as a support/supply pumper to fill tankers or set up a long relay. The only problem I have heard they have with it is that it is very heavy when loaded and their chassis wasn't suitable to handle it. Otherwise, I guess it has served them well. So the lesson learned is that if you elect to put one on a truck, be sure you anticipate the total load with your brand of LDH when you specify the chassis.

    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    Bump thread

  13. #13
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    Default LOVE our LDH reel

    Wow..this was a pretty good thread. I'm glad someone bumped it to the top.
    Our attack engine has an LDH reel with 1300' on it. We are a rural dept. and it makes things MUCH easier. When the first truck gets on scene, we drop the manifold and start reeling off line. It doesn't slow us down more than a few seconds and when we get up the drive, road, etc to the structure a few more seconds and that engine is completely done setting up to receive water.
    When the second engine in gets there, the manifold is laying right at the intersection and pulls the line off, hooks to the manifold, and is ready to pump directly to the first engine. We've had that truck since I joined the department so I don't know what it was like laying it all by hand, but I can't imagine doing it without the reel now. Putting it back on the truck isn't much more difficult than deploying it and, again, is done in a matter of minutes.

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    Ok I have a question. If the reel holds say, 2500ft of LDH, do you have to unreel all of the hose if the scene is only 900ft from the water source? Do they have break off points in the hose so you dont have to unreel the whole reel?
    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1
    Ok I have a question. If the reel holds say, 2500ft of LDH, do you have to unreel all of the hose if the scene is only 900ft from the water source? Do they have break off points in the hose so you dont have to unreel the whole reel?
    thanks
    It's just normal LDH....ours is at least. 50' sections. We drop the manifold and run about 50' off to have extra until the reel gets spinning with the truck and go to the scene. When we stop, we look at what we have and decide if we want to run more off to the next break, or if we break it at the last coupling. We do keep a 25' section on the truck to make a connection if we're a little short to get up to the intake. The line on the reel isn't connected to anything...just on the reel. It's all stortz couplings so it's quick and easy to break where you want it.

    Does that help?

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    Yes thanks a lot,

    Any pics of a setup like this. We have a large pump on a trailer that our grass rig pulls. It can supply water from a pond several thousand feet away. We hate using it because it takes so long to fold the hose back on the trailer. A reel would be great.
    Any Idea hoe much they might cost?

  17. #17
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    Ledebuhr,

    Talk to one of your local power / phone companies. They often have trailers that have powered reels on them for retracting cable and whatnot. I'm sure one of those would work beautifully for our purpouses....
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    FTM-PTB


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    Quote Originally Posted by DellroyVFD08
    Wow..this was a pretty good thread. I'm glad someone bumped it to the top.
    thanks very much

    Working thru this issue for our dept. We are putting together a rural/"city" solution to moving ISO water. Have acquired 5000ft of 6" we are going to use. Working thru details on what we are doing reelwise (trk mtd, trailer mtd etc).

  19. #19
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    5000 feet of 6Ē hose WOW!
    Iíve seen 6Ē on Oil refinery apparatus, now thatís a supply line. Anít drive over that.
    I wonder how many depts. use 6Ē LDH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa
    thanks very much

    Working thru this issue for our dept. We are putting together a rural/"city" solution to moving ISO water. Have acquired 5000ft of 6" we are going to use. Working thru details on what we are doing reelwise (trk mtd, trailer mtd etc).
    So what surplus program did you find this stuff in? You never cease amaze me with the resourcefulness of the stuff you've done.

    In case anyone can't tell, this is a compliment.

    I'd bet Hannay has a contact list of customers who use their LDH reels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801
    So what surplus program did you find this stuff in? You never cease amaze me with the resourcefulness of the stuff you've done.

    In case anyone can't tell, this is a compliment.

    I'd bet Hannay has a contact list of customers who use their LDH reels.
    You got me.

    The Navy/USMC use 6" LDH in 100ft sections, victaulic couplings, for ship to shore transfer of fuel. Huge reel mounted on the deck of a tanker and they tow the hose to shore to pump into portable bladder tank farms. Very nice.

    The Army lays miles of 6" LDH in 500ft sections, victaulic couplings, across the desert, as portable pipelines, to move fuel forward (do the same for water). Relay pumps stationed along the way, as required, to keep it moving. Typical is 600gpm. For many many miles. Nice stuff, typically made by Angus.

    Also have 9000ft of DOD surplus 4" LDH we were going to use until we obtained the 6".


    The largest users of LDH is not the fire service. It's the manure handling (farm) business. Typical is to lay a few miles of 6" hose from a multimillion gallon lagoon. Pump with a 2000gpm tractor powered pump at 100psi+/- to a distant field. At the field the 6" is hooked to a lighter weight 4" hose several 1000ft long the is connected to a tractor mounted "knife"/plow unit. The liquid manure is then knife/injected into the soil for fertilizer as the tractor drives a pattern thru the field. These guys know more about LDH and reels than the fire service will every know. Hundreds operating across rural American moving billions of gal of wet stuff. Google on manure drag hose.

    Anyhow, we are working with a local mfg of reels for manure drag hose for our reel. Hanney is nice but in the paint it red/price it for NASA business. I think will do a trailer rig with 2 reels w/hydraulic rewind.
    Last edited by neiowa; 02-01-2006 at 12:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confire
    5000 feet of 6Ē hose WOW!
    Iíve seen 6Ē on Oil refinery apparatus, now thatís a supply line. Anít drive over that.
    I wonder how many depts. use 6Ē LDH?
    From what I understand 8" and 12" LDH also available/used in refineries

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    As posted previously we have 4000 feet 5" on a Hannay reel - we use 200 foot lengths of angus - we carry a assortment of shorter lengths in the compartments 50's and 25' to make up connections as needed. Also use a inline pumping valve for higher flows / longer distance / hills / ect. Our biggest problem has been with the brake on the reel - our brake is on the gear of the hydraulic motor - small gear trying to stop a big reel. if we did it again we would have a disk brake fabricated on the disk at the end of the reel and use a caliper on that. Current system works ok - just have to replace the pads once a year no matter what.

    SBLGFD

    www.sblgfd.com

  24. #24
    FF-EMT
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    Thumbs up LDH Truck

    Fishers Island NY is a small dept in Suffolk County and they have used a LDH reel for most of the last twenty years or so. They have a surplus 6x6 that the dept modified and put in service. It is used for water supply and not as an attack engine. I can give you contact info if you email or PM me. I grew up there and have seen the truck but never worked with it personally
    Mark Zanghetti
    FF-EMT
    Goshen Fire Dept.
    Waterford, CT

  25. #25
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    The Dept where i live has a 1995 KME with 1500' of 4" LDH on a reel, it is the third and last rig purchased here with a reel. We use 100' lengths, and for our purposes it sucks! If you are in a more rural setting with long hose lays it may work out ok for you. Some of the shortcomings we've encountered include:
    The chauffer cannot handstretch back to a hydrant without at least one other FF (to operate the reel).
    Loss of compartment space
    Hose bed above reel is like 9 miles from earth
    Body is wider than cab due to length of reel and space for hydraulics
    Overall length is increased because reel sits behind the rear axle
    Repacking it is an art every coupling has to sit just right or the reel will hit the back or bottom of the opening

    The reels have their place, mainly I would think in areas lacking hydrants. If you decide to spec one out do not enclose it, leave the top open, we had one like that on an old international and it worked great. Also make your mechanic check the mounting hardware periodically, we had one on another rig that broke free (how'd you like a reel of 1700' of 4" on a steel reel rolling off the back step at you?).

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