In the process to writing specs for a transport fire engine. Looking for infromation on any department that uses this type of appuratus and good or bad about the idea.
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Thread: Transport engines
10-26-2000, 05:07 PM #1f-2andyFirehouse.com Guest
10-27-2000, 11:40 AM #2N2DFireFirehouse.com Guest
Well - I can't say I have a lot of information for you, but I do have one question.
By "Transport Engine" I assume (oh no not the "A" word) that you want a full fledged Engine with Pt treatment/transport abilities, but just to clarify (or possibly to play devils advocate) have you looked into the "Fire-Lance" type vehicles ?
I know that E-One makes the Trident and I'm pretty sure that Medic Master offers one as well.
These are basicly larger ambulances with small water and pump capibilities.
Other than that - I'm sorry I can't be more help. Good luck in your search & spec. Once you get your rig finished - I'd be very interested to see some drawings / pictures of it.
Also - check out the information on this older thread. http://www.firehouse.com/interactive...ML/000248.html
Take Care - Stay Safe
[This message has been edited by N2DFire (edited October 27, 2000).]
10-27-2000, 12:10 PM #3East Haddam#1firefighterFirehouse.com Guest
Maybe if you clarify what a Transport Fire Engine is, then maybe more people will be able to help you f-2andy. Everyone peace and stay low!
East Haddam F.D.
East Haddam Connecticut
10-27-2000, 03:01 PM #4f-2andyFirehouse.com Guest
THank You for your interest. A transport fire engine is a full size engine meeting NFPA 1901. A 2000 gpm pum, 500 gal tank, foam, hose, ladders ect. A ambulance gurney will be mounted side way in the crew cab. I know that Pierce has made some for Sandy, Utah and Flagstaff, Arizona. I was wanting to know if other manufacture had made this type of engine. Also pro's and con's. Thank You
10-27-2000, 06:23 PM #5AVF&R452Firehouse.com Guest
Why would you want to do such a thing????
Just a few thoughts...
1. What good is it on a fire scene when you have hose off and the crew committed and someone brings you a patient that needs immediate transport?? Do you abandon the fire fighting?? What about the crew and other victims?? Do you still have people inside when you break down your lines and beat feet to the hospital??
2. How do you keep the patient care area free of all the crap carried on boots and turnout gear. Do you really want to have to decon the entire crew cab, SCBA etc. because your last transport had an infectious disease?
3. What have you lost in space to carry your crew in order to have the gurney and all the gear??
4. What kind of problems will it create when you end up with a BS transport and then have a working fire with entrapment?? If Alaska's laws are like Virginia's, YOU FINISH THE TRANSPORT.
5. Do you REALLY want to spend $300,000+ on an engine that may be unavailable due to an EMS run, OR, An ambulance that may be unavailable due to a fire response??
6. It seems to me that this will be a unit that will be less than ideal for both FIRE AND EMS. You will have to look at your response area and assess your own requirements. Just a few thoughts of my own.
BTW, Where on Kodiak are you located?? I was stationed at Spruce Cape Back in 1983-84. Pretty country up that way.
[This message has been edited by AVF&R452 (edited October 27, 2000).]
10-28-2000, 09:51 PM #6TKFirehouse.com Guest
To answer your question, E-One makes a transport pumper on their Hush chassis. Spartan makes a transport chassis, I assume any body manufacture that builds on Spartan chassis could accommodate. Also I saw a Suphen in a magazine add that was transport capable.
10-29-2000, 12:20 PM #7ffengFirehouse.com Guest
There are likely some more unique jurisdictions out there where a transport engine make sense. However, on the surface to me, I can't believe that it is the most effective and cost-efficient way to deliver fire and EMS services. My main comment would be to look very carefully at all other options. As already has been noted, there are a lot of disadvantages - you've got a very expensive transport rig, I would assume the cost/mile is significantly greater than an ambulance. And you're also taking the engine out of fire protection service. Even if you can afford to run the engine for transport, do you have enough engines to cover both EMS and fire demand? And also, are you taking a 4-man crew out of service for a transport.
As a quick thought, I think I would lean more to a 2-piece engine/EMS crew. I would purchase a 2-door commercial engine and a standard ambulance, split the crew 2 and 2. You could run both rigs on everything if you want, fire and EMS, and I think you would have much greater flexibility.
Like I said in the beginning, maybe it is the best way in certain jurisdictions, I'd just give it a lot of thought.
11-05-2000, 06:06 PM #8sgfdFirehouse.com Guest
11-05-2000, 07:14 PM #9ArmyTruckCompanyFirehouse.com Guest
There are some sick, sick people in this world!!!!!
"Loyalty above all else, except honor."
12-23-2000, 01:50 PM #10Steve HagyFirehouse.com Guest
The Sycamore Township F.D. on the northeast side of Cincinnati operates 2 engines with transport capabilities. One of the rigs has been in service for several years now. The other was on display at FDIC in Indianapolis this past spring. Seagrave had a piece of sales literature available showing some of the details. Phone #'s for STFD are: 513-792-8565 or 513-791-8565. I beleive it was Winter Haven, Florida that purchased a couple of Ford/E-One units back in the 80's. I don't beleive their in service any longer.
12-23-2000, 01:53 PM #11Steve HagyFirehouse.com Guest
The Sycamore Township F.D. on the northeast side of Cincinnati operates 2 engines with transport capabilities. One of the rigs has been in service for several years now. The other was on display at FDIC in Indianapolis this past spring. Seagrave had a piece of sales literature available showing some of the details. Phone #'s for STFD are: 513-792-8565 or 513-791-8565. I beleive it was Winter Haven, Florida that purchased a couple of Ford/E-One units back in the 80's. I don't beleive they are in service any longer.
01-08-2001, 11:11 PM #12MB1213635Firehouse.com Guest
In my opinion based on my experiences in the fire and ems services, a transport engine is not something that I would want. Just from my experience running on a BLS unit, there are many undesirable things that cannot be avoided on an ambulance that I would not want on an engine such as blood, body fluids, airborne contaminants, etc. On the other side, how do you think a patient would react to being loaded into an engine that has just run a working fire? Overall, I think the best idea is to keep the two separate. Let the ambulance crew deal with the ambulance problems (infection control, etc) and let the fire crew deal with the general firefighting issues. However, I could see its use only when staffing and budget is so tight that the department cannot afford to purchase an engine and ambulance. Also that the department does not have the volunteer base to minimally staff each reliably or cannot afford to pay to minimally staff each. If you are not in this situation, I would avoid the transport engine if at all possible.
02-03-2001, 04:53 AM #13J.E.BeallFirehouse.com Guest
Alls I can tell ya from experince is that it was tried in Virginia (Widewater VFD, Stafford Co.) with an E-One Hush built for that reason and the state of Virginia wouldn't certifiy it for EMS transport. One reason was lack of proper space for pat. transport. The engine ('94 model) was refitted with add. jump seats and is currently for sale. They had many problems with it other than the EMS issue, pump controls.....ect.
02-03-2001, 10:38 AM #14Ladder ManFirehouse.com Guest
I've been in the fire service for twenty years now. I think I'm pretty open minded when it come to new things. BUT! This by far is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. BUY A AMBULANCE!
[This message has been edited by Ladder Man (edited 02-03-2001).]
02-11-2001, 12:36 AM #15ppalmerFirehouse.com Guest
Our department 18 months ago purchased a Pierce Lance 2000 with transport capability. Because we are predominately rural we also equipped this unit with CAFS and a pto main pump for pump and roll. Because the pto's raised the crew cab floor by 4 inches it put the cot at an awkward position for loading, so the cot was removed. We did reconfigure the crew cab area so that we can still load and transport a patient if needed.
We staff per shift, 2 medic units and one engine company. All of our paramedics are full time and our 40 vols. are FR to EMT-Int. The engine frequently backs up our medic units and threfore is out of quarters a lot. With this engine, when they are out of quarters and that next call comes, they have the equipment, training and now the vehicle to deliver the needed service to our citizens whatever that need is. Using the engine is not our first choice ( in 18 months and 5100 calls we have transported 3 times )and mutual aid is not always available and to delay transport is not appropriate to the best patient outcome. It is all about maximizing our resources in order to deliver the best possible service we can. Our state is victim to several tax limitation measures so our ability to throw people at our service delivery problems is not an option so we must turn to technology and innovation, again to maximize the resources we do have. After all, it is what the fire service does best-- improvise to get the job done. I know it may not be the ideal solution but it is a valuable option for us that can and has paid off to better patient survivability and outcomes.
02-11-2001, 10:26 PM #16HAMMER14Firehouse.com Guest
I agree with Army,
There are some seriously ill people in this world, and it's not the ones that need transported!!
02-11-2001, 11:44 PM #17Steve HagyFirehouse.com Guest
02-12-2001, 01:11 PM #18f-2andyFirehouse.com Guest
I would like to thank all the people for the positive responses. As for the negative ones get a life. Many area of the fire service need to adapt to situations in there area's. The purpose of this form was to get information. If you don't like the idea "tough".
With some modification we will be purchasing a transport engine. It turned out to be a Pierce, with a 2000gpm pump, 750 gal tank , dual foam to 4 different Pre-connects. A total of 7 pre connects, built in hydraulic cord reels, and electric cord reels, Light tower, 10,000 watt hydraulic generator and others. Thanks
02-14-2001, 02:24 PM #19SBrooksFirehouse.com Guest
Are you buying the Transport Engine in order to respond an EMS transport piece directly to the scene whenever you recieve a call while the engine is on the air?
I'd like to hear from you about your department, and why this seems like a good idea.
12-31-2001, 12:30 PM #20
I was looking through some older posts and I wondered if you had received the new rig yet?
On the <a href="http://www.rescue-net.com/" target="_blank">Rescue-Net</a>web site (Photo Post Section) there is a photo of one of the Sycamore Township, Ohio Seagrave transport engines. Thought you might like to take a look.
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