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  1. #1
    onycs
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Aerial's - What are your Thoughts?

    Our department is looking to purchase a new aerial. The chief is looking for a mid-mount 65'. We are running a 75' Pierce Quantum with a 1750 GPM pump and a 1750 Pierce Dash with a 50' Telesquirt as our front line units. We are a small suburb of Salt Lake City and don't have any "high rise" buildings. The highest building we have is 6 stories. This will be mainly used as an elevated stream. We are also concerned about the size as we have an older station and would like the short wheelbase. These are some of the reasons for the mid-mount and only 65'. We are looking at multiple manufacturers. What are your thoughts and advice?

    Thanks,

    Ron Sanders
    Engineer/Firefighter
    Midvale City Fire Dept., Utah


  2. #2
    NKF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Another thing to think about is how far of a reach will you have in your area from the street to the building. If a lot of your buildings are more than 65' from the street how will you reach the roof for venting and or rescue? Is your area being developed? Depending on how long you plan to keep your truck will there be more large buildings? Just some ideas that we looked at when we were purchasing our truck.

  3. #3
    Doo600
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    Just bought ours and heres what we learned. American Lafrance has a useless cramp angle so tight turns are impossible. E-one and Pierce are real good but after viewing both operations I was most impressed with the Pierce operation because of the attention to detail and construction. Just don't get it in Galvaneal, especially in your climate. You should look at Aluminum or Stainless Steel because Pierce is famous for rusting. I agree with the previous guy, just cause you don't have tall buildings doesn't mean you should go short. The access to a 2 story house from the road can use more than 75. Our neighbor has a 75' E-one and they believe it is the most useless piece of equipment they have. Mid mount Pierce will get you in the 10 foot high range which is real short for an aerial and combined with the great cramp angle, I think you may have found what you're looking for.

  4. #4
    NKF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The previous guy is a girl. Ha Ha Just made me laugh

  5. #5
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    >> Our department is looking to purchase a new aerial. The chief is looking for a mid-mount 65'. We are running a 75' Pierce Quantum with a 1750 GPM pump and a 1750 Pierce Dash with a 50' Telesquirt as our front line units. We are a small suburb of Salt Lake City and don't have any "high rise" buildings. The highest building we have is 6 stories.

    If you already have a 50' squirt, it seems a bit strange to me to want to go with only the additional story-and-a-half you get from a 65' aerial. When you take into account setbacks, possible future development, etc., it seems like better long-term planning to go with a 100' aerial and be prepared. We run both a 55' squirt and 100' ladder, and have used each one in sitautions where the other could not function. It's a great combination. There are sections of old industrial buildings that only the squirt can get to because they sit in mazes of very small alleys, while there are 2-story development homes that only the laddeer can reach because of their setbacks. Why restrict yourself by buying a second short aerial?

    >> This will be mainly used as an elevated stream.

    What about ventilation operations, rescue, etc.?? We have waterways on both our aerials, but we hate using them since that means you've already lost the battle.

    >> We are also concerned about the size as we have an older station and would like the short wheelbase. These are some of the reasons for the mid-mount and only 65'.

    I don't understand...if your station is old and small, why do you want a mid-mount?? All else equal, a mid-mount will have a shorter wheelbase, but longer overall length, than an equivalent rear-mount. If fact, you can put a 65' aerial on an oversized pumper chassis. The major advantage of mid-mounts, in terms of getting them into a station, is their lower overall height. Even so, Pierce, for example, can build you a rear-mount ladder up to 105' (NOT a platform) with overall height under 11'-6" and overall length under 40'.

    >> We are looking at multiple manufacturers.

    Give Pierce, Smeal and LTI a look. I would only wish a KME on my worst enemy.


  6. #6
    Halligan84
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Bob -

    We're specking a KME Midmount now, what kind of problems have you seen specifically with KME? It seemed to be the strongest of the ladders we looked at, smoothest operation and fastest set up too.

  7. #7
    Firekatz04
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Ron, we run a Pierce rear mount 105'. We only have 1 "high rise" in our first due... it's a church. We have a few mid-rise. We've used ours for many ops. Main use in our first due is for "roof work". (Re:"The highest building we have is 6 stories. This will be mainly used as an elevated stream.")
    Even on a 2 or 3 story house, if it's set back a little ways your at 75' or more and you can still ladder the roof. We also run 2nd alarm calls to hospitals and high-rises. The truck definatly sees a little bit of work. We've had it just over a year. About the only thing I would have done differently would be to go with a heavier duty ladder.
    Ok, this is "post edit". The OTHER things would be: different scene lighting (extendable poles to raise lights) and adding EXTRA lighting, and... a PUMP and a WATER TANK (I like the versatility of quints).

    [This message has been edited by Firekatz04 (edited 03-27-2001).]

  8. #8
    STATION2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I'm not going to bite on the Quint comment. I agree that you should look at future development and realistic expectations and needs of this proposed rig. E-One has a 95' mid mount that is low in height and extremely versatile. By far the best aerial made. Never had a failure and won't rust. Grat cramp angle and easy to set up and operate. Be safe.

    Larry

  9. #9
    Kevin White
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Larry,

    Where can I get a look at E-One's mid-mount tower? I knew it was in the works but didnt know it had been introduced into the market yet. Thanks.

    Kevin

  10. #10
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by Halligan84:
    Bob -

    We're specking a KME Midmount now, what kind of problems have you seen specifically with KME? It seemed to be the strongest of the ladders we looked at, smoothest operation and fastest set up too.
    One of our chiefs is a career engineer in a nearby city. Over the past decade or so, they had some refurbs done by KME, then purchased some engines from KME. Basically, they've had problems ranging from pump panels that lit up like X-mas trees any time they got wet, to comparment doors falling off, to wiring failures. While I have no direct or indirect experience with KME's aerials, the city's experience with engines & refurbs is enough to convince me that there are, or have recently been, quality problems there.

    KME would need to be able to show me a lot over time before I'd trust them to put anything in our station. At minimum, when they can show me at least a dozen expamples of 20+ year-old KME rigs performing well without any major overhaul, significant recalls, or significant repairs (beyond wear & tear) I'll consider changing my opinion. Until then, they need not send any salesmen our way.

  11. #11
    51Truck_K
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    Please recheck your sources and confirm your statement....Was that mid-mount you mentioned really an E-One, or a Peirce? I would love to see an E-One Middie...SO STOP TOYING WITH ME!!!! Please. LOL

  12. #12
    trumpeter75
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Back to the orginal question:

    We just got a replacement aerial, and looked at several options ourselves. Based on what you've said, onycs, I would recommend you look at Sutphen's 75' midmount. (wait for the expected gasps). Here's why:
    1. You said your station is old and small. I assume this means short bays, and Sutphens fit in a 10' door. The 75' is a single-axle, and is about as long as a standard pumper.
    2. You are planning to use this as an elevated stream. I think Sutphens suck for rescue (we use an LTI, but then we use it for rescue, too), but they're ok for streams.

    You can get them with or without a pump, depending on your specs. I've been to their factory, and have heard many pros and cons about them. People who have them either love 'em or hate 'em depending on who you ask. But they sound appropriate for what you're looking for.

  13. #13
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    E-One makes a mid mount tower.

  14. #14
    STATION2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    51Truck K,

    Then you may scream joys of pleasure. E-One makes a mid-mount. And by the way I can tell the difference between an E-One and a Pierce. The E-One is the one thats starts like its supposed to, makes it to the scene, operates at the scene and makes it back to quarters without a mechanic or an excuse. Be safe.

    Larry

    [This message has been edited by STATION2 (edited 04-08-2001).]

  15. #15
    Resq14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    lol

    Our 95' E-One platform arrived last month. The ladderway is incredible. The hydraulic system is pretty much tops when compared to other manf's. Finally, it seems like a very tough truck. No cheap gimmicks to break.

    Again, a lot of it has to do with your specs. But when it comes to ladder systems, I can't see why you wouldn't make E-One your top choice.

  16. #16
    jhill
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Now don't say that about a Pierce. We may very well be purchasing a Pierce to replace our Sutphen. Now there is a truck that needs a onboard mechanic.
    Can't comment on E-One, have only worked off of only one in my life. Did hear about the fleet of "cracked frame trucks" that my friends in Houston get to work with.

  17. #17
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //Did hear about the fleet of "cracked frame trucks" that my friends in Houston get to work with.

    Now there is an absolute lie!. Houston never had any cracked frames. And no one in the houston shop has worked on any cracked frames. Do you have the shop order numbers for that work?

  18. #18
    EONESUX
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Here we go again with the Pierce - e-one War!
    Blah! Blah! Blah! Blah!

  19. #19
    ONTFF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    dont get caught up with one brand, get a truck that will do the tasks you need it to do and remember to think years ahead as far as development in your area, personally I think all the manufacturers could meet certain demands if their is enough $ in it for them

  20. #20
    Resq14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Originally posted by EONESUX:
    Here we go again with the Pierce - e-one War!
    Blah! Blah! Blah! Blah!
    With a name like that, what exactly is your point?

    =)~

    P I E R C E =
    Poor + Inferior Excuse (for a) Real Custom Engine/ladder/rescue

    Don't take me too seriously now...

    [This message has been edited by Resq14 (edited 04-22-2001).]

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