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  1. #1
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post Front Mounted Hydraulic Tools

    Anybody out there have info and or photos on hydraulic tools mounted in the front bumper of an engine? Looking for tool manufacturer, model, and more importantly how are you handling the hydraulic lines? Are they packed in like a front mounted trash line would be?

    We're designing a rescue engine and are considering putting at least a combi tool in the front bumper for quick deployment on door pops, etc.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated!


  2. #2
    51Truck_K
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Good thinking! I believe a combi-tool deployed to the front is a good idea, put a hydraulic hose reel in the front bumper, with a box for the tool to protect it from dust and crap.Keep it connected, always ready!Simple effective, and PROGRESSIVE

  3. #3
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Take a look at the attached wep page, it pretty much shows what you are looking for.
    http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/7873/pictures.html

  4. #4
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Thanks. I took a look at the photos and it is pretty close to what I am looking for however my only question is storage of the tool itself. I don't see any area for it to be stored based on the configuration of the hydraulic line.

  5. #5
    FFDIVERChad165
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    My department is in the process of specing a new heavy rescue with the Amkus Ultimate system. We are going to have 2 preconnected bumper tool's 2 off the back and one off each side. I do have some pics from F.D.I.C. 2001 that we took of front mounted tools I could send you.

  6. #6
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    if you have electric forms of the pictures you can send them to my firehouse mail account

    fftrainer@firehousemail.com

    Thanks to all for your input!

  7. #7
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //my only question is storage of the tool itself.

    The photos clearly show the tool is mounted on the bumper in a custom bracket with a velcro hold down. What are you asking?

    //I don't see any area for it to be stored based on the configuration of the hydraulic line.

    It is stored on the bumper.

  8. #8
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    First things first, no need for the antagonistic attitude. I asked a simple question.

    Not sure the climate you come from out in NV, but here in NJ the amount of road salt, dirt and crap our DOT throws on our roads, I want the tool in some sort of box in the bumper and not tied down with velcro like you claim I should so clearly see!!

    and to quote "The photos clearly show the tool is mounted on the bumper" Maybe if you considered reading what I am looking for prior to snapping off the oh so clear way you apparently think things should be done you would have seen that I am looking for storage within the bumper not on top of.

    Maybe I should be clearer for future responders. I am looking for storage IN the bumper similar to the way trash lines, etc are enclosed within a diamond plate enclosed area with a lid and not ON the bumper exposed to all the elements!

  9. #9
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I simply tried to answer your poorly worded question. The trucks are not from NV. Then build a box if you want a box.

    Other than that, I think I wnet the extra mile answering yor question,

    ??info and or photos on hydraulic tools mounted in the front bumper of an engine? Looking for tool manufacturer, model, and more importantly how are you handling the hydraulic lines? Are they packed in like a front mounted trash line would be???

    [This message has been edited by LHS* (edited 04-06-2001).]

  10. #10
    Engine69
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    With "quick deployment for door pops", do you have time to get the vehicle properly stabalized before you go after it with the tools? I would consider keeping at least 4 step-chocks on the front bumper to get the vehicle under control and THEN go about taking the vehicle apart.


  11. #11
    51Truck_K
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    RIGGGHHHHTTTTT....

  12. #12
    HFD1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We have a front preconnected combo tool and a preconnected sawzall in compartments built into the front bumper on our 2000 International 4dr walk-in rescue. the bumper was extended 22" and the compartments are built the depth of the bumper. All three compartments are covered with one raised lid (about 5") the hydraulic reel is in one on the outside of the frame rail, electric reel is in the other outer compartment, the tools are in the center compartment along with 4 step chocks. This is working very well for us and have no moisture problems.

    ------------------
    Brad Nickey

  13. #13
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Engine69 -- you hit one of the exact reasons I am looking for info on this design. We want the tool in the front however if you have quick deployment of the tool on its own with no method of stabilization, you are still standing at square one and haven't increased your speed of deployment at all.

    LHS* - Thanks for the 'constructive' criticism and that's great that the trucks are not from Colorado, but I'm missing the point of where that is relevent in this discussion.

    And don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the link to the photos. I need to start somewhere and your concept helps me with the mounting aspect and path of the hydraulic line, I will simply have to have a box put around the tool as well.

  14. #14
    Fyrtrks
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    I have two concerns with anything on the front bumper that can be dealt with. 1 Make sure the sub structure of the bumper is strong and not just the S/S bumper it's self. FDNY uses some frame-rail behind the bumper, for them it's for accident strength butr for you it would be to protect the reels from those firm fender benders. 2 Route the hoses from the pump to the reel through a conduit of some type. I suggest this because i would not want to cut umphteen tie wraps if I needed to replace a hose, just disconnect from the reel and the pump and pull the new hose through you may need to remove the Q/D couplings but it's alot quicker. I would also check with the tool manufacturer to see what they suggest about length of run from the pump and remember you may be 25 - 30 feet from the pump to the reel that gives you a reel of 70 - 75 feet on the reel

  15. #15
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //We want the tool in the front however if you have quick deployment of the tool on its own with no method of stabilization, you are still standing at square one and haven't increased your speed of deployment at all.

    Sure you have, unless you staff your rig with only one firefighter. It isn't quicker having everything preconnected, locating the tools on the bumper for a shorter pull, and eliminating the need to start a tool? Obviously the crew rides somewhere on the fire truck. In the case of the posted photo, if you look around a bit you'll see 4 step chocks placed within 7 feet of where the crew rides. Certainly, all firefighters have been asked at some point to open a stubborn door where no stabilization and/or no ems were needed.

    //that's great that the trucks are not from Colorado,

    actually they are.

    //but I'm missing the point of where that is relevent in this discussion.

    Gee, you asked about cliamte in Nevada. Obviously, their is more bad weather in Colorado than NJ, isn't there?

    //2 Route the hoses from the pump to the reel through a conduit of some type. I suggest this because i would not want to cut umphteen tie wraps if I needed to replace a hose, just disconnect from the reel and the pump and pull the new hose through you may need to remove the Q/D couplings but it's alot quicker.

    That is how all the Rattlesnake trucks are setup.

    //I would also check with the tool manufacturer to see what they suggest about length of run from the pump and remember you may be 25 - 30 feet from the pump to the reel that gives you a reel of 70 - 75 feet on the reel

    Or in Rattlesnakes case 150 feet of working length past the bumper.

  16. #16
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Folks --

    Thanks for all the info.

    LHS - since the trucks you refer to are designed with the tool on the front, what is your opinion on fyrtrks point of reinforced bumpers. Was this addressed on the rattelsnake trucks?

    Oh and fyi, it was in your post that you stated the trucks are NOT from Colorado so I was quoting you. Thanks though!
    ----------------------
    "I simply tried to answer your poorly worded question. The trucks are not from colorado. Then build a box if you want a box."
    ----------------------

    [This message has been edited by FFTrainer (edited 04-06-2001).]

  17. #17
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS - since the trucks you refer to are designed with the tool on the front, what is your opinion on fyrtrks point of reinforced bumpers. Was this addressed on the rattelsnake trucks?

    Their is a frame rail inside the framerails. In either case the insurance company will be buying new equipment. That is what insurance is for.

    If crash testing is that important better add a bumper at the rear of the rig, and one each side in front of the pump panlel too.



  18. #18
    rcorleto
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I am from NJ so I agree with the point about truly making the compartment element-proof based on how our roads get in the winter. My dept is going through the same situation yours is. We are specing a pumper/tanker that will be used as a backup rescue if our rescue truck is unavailable. We are going to be putting a combo tool and a small gas pump on the truck so we can get something started while a mutial aid rescue responds. We decided against the front bumper route so the tools and power unit wouldn't be tied to the vehicle. This way if we needed to use them for entry or other task on a fire scene they are mobile. Also, are you going to have any other tools or reels elsewhere on the truck? If not, then you are going to spend alot of $ mounting a power unit and plumbing it to the reel in the front. If you do go through with the bummper system keep in mind the tool length because it will have to fit in the space between the framerail and the outer edge of the bumper. And you will always get some dirt and grim in the compartment from the drain holes in the bottom. Move the airhorns in between the two framerails to maximize the space on the outside of the rails. Also, if the bumper compartment is deep make sure you aren't going to have any problem with departure angles or steep hills hitting it(we have this problem due to a steep pad angle to the street). A piston hold open device is nice but you usually can't open the compartment door all of the way. A chain will let you open the door past 90 degrees and get full access to the compartment. We use Amkus rescue tools. We have will be using model c-15 combo tool on the Pumper/Tanker. It is a good,light,reliable tool. We have a similer unit on our big truck and have never had a failure of the tool in over 10 years. For info on all of Amkus's equipment go to www.amkus.com (I am not a salesman). We used Lukas for a few years in the early 80's prior to using Amkus. The are both good tools. Hurst and Holmatro are also good. They all will work well. Tools are like sports teams. Everyone has a favorite, usually the brand they use, and everyone else sucks. HA. Try different brands and use what you are comfortable with. Talk to departments using the different brands. Try to go to a drill with them and try the tools. Don't let some one who doesn't use a particular brand tell you how bad it is. Email me if you have anymore questions. I will be glad to answer them. Good luck.

  19. #19
    HAMMER14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    My first question is what are you planning on putting on this vehicle in the way of hydraulic rescue tools? Is it going to be just the Combo tool or are you going with a full set of hydraulic tools and a large pump for them.

    If you are just talking about just a combo tool then look into a small mini pump and preconnect it to the Combo tool and put it in a compartment. There would be no need for any routing of hydraulic lines. It shouldn't take that much longer with a mini pump, than a full system because you would still have to get out and start everything up, even with a vehicle mounted system.

    If you are going to put a larger pump mounted in the vehicle, what are the limits on the hydraulic line lengths before you start loosing power. We have an Amkus Ultimate system that is capable of running up to 300' lines w/o a loss in power or speed. The older unit we have is pretty much limited to around 100'. You could end up using up a lot of line just getting it to the bumper depending on where you would mount the pump.

    Always crib the vehicle, no matter if it is "just" a door pop. Even doing this can make the car move enough to jar the patient. So you should have time to set up the equipment if needed to.

    As for mounting equipment in or on the front bumper. Are you planning on putting anything else up front?We had a rescue pumper and the front bumper was full and there wasn't a whole lot of room to put a compartment that would fit a tool. We had a front bumper trash line, 12,000 lb winch, a small compartment for winch accessories and a soft sleeve for the front intake. Sorry no room for a tool. If you are going to play in the vehicle rescue business please get at least a winch, they can come in real handy sometimes. Sorry just had to put that in. Do you always pull head on into the scene? A lot of people put the main hydraulic tools in a compartment towards the rear. This allows you to position the vehicle so is it fairly easy to operate on either side of the apparatus. Always position to use everything, you never know what you may find after you just "pop" the door. If it ends up being more now you would have to pull all the other tools a farther distance instead of being right next to you.

    Every compartment that I have seen that tries to seal a edge against Diamond plate only stays sealed for about a year until the rubber gaskets start to wear out, especially in NJ, I'm from PA I know what the roads can get like. I would still like to know where they get all that salt from.

    What ever you may decide I hope this has helped, Good luck with the new rig.

  20. #20
    engineer19
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    FFTrainer...you said you were designing a new rescue engine.......Keep in mind that the manufacturers of these trucks are an excellent place to direct these questions. Chances are they have done it before and have a good idea on how to do it. Also, like one of the other replies said, make sure it is well sealed. A preconnected combi-tool is the way to go for most incidents, but like Engine69 said....Don't forget about stabilization.

    ------------------
    these are my opinoins and do not represent my depts. YOU GO, WE GO

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