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  1. #1
    FEOBob
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post Tandem axle tractors for tillered aerials

    Due to Washington State Weight restrictions, my department is planning on purchasing a tillered aerial with a tandem rear axle tractor. This rig will be spec'd with a 100' stick, pre-piped waterway, and likely a pump and tank.
    Anybody out there have such a beast? Any good or bad comments? Do you still get the turning radius advantage? Go through a lot of tires?

    BTW, the same weight restrictions will force us to buy an 85' tower rather than a 100' tower.


  2. #2
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Better have the builder do a turn radius chart for you. You might find out that you will no longer have the ability to make the turns you make now. Remember it is the wheelbase of the tractor that determines your ability to turn. Look out for tire scrub. You'll be buying lots.

  3. #3
    Resq14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Fire apparatus aren't exempt from these restrictions???

  4. #4
    FEOBob
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    There are no legislative exemptions in Washington state laws for fire apparatus regarding weight restrictions.

    There have been departments that have ignored these laws (or so I've been told) and made purchases of these type apparatus; and several departments in the state that have held off on purchasing aerials hoping that an exemption will be made, as we have until now. The 1977 and 1978 aerials we have are really getting long in the tooth though.

    We also have more bridges in our city than most with a river running through the center of town making some pretty high/long bridges. These are generally on state routes which may complicate things.

    All that said, our city legal department does not want us to break the laws on weight restrictions.

  5. #5
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Fire apparatus aren't exempt from these restrictions???

    I believe these are up to individual states.

    Connecticut, too, doesn't give a blanket exemption to fire apparatus.

    Depending on your wheelbase, single rear axles are allowed 40,000lbs. Tandem rear axles go from 54,000lbs to 60,000lbs depending on the wheelbase.

    Over those limits, legally you need an "overweight permit" from State DOT.

    CT isn't alone:
    From the Worcester Telegram & Gazette, regarding Ladder 2, a 95' KME Midmount 6/2/99:
    "A State Police inspection revealed the truck was seven tons overweight and nine feet too long. Its operation on highways will require a special waiver."


    [This message has been edited by Dalmatian90 (edited 05-25-2001).]

  6. #6
    STATION2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    See next post

    [This message has been edited by STATION2 (edited 05-25-2001).]

  7. #7
    STATION2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The City of Colombus, Ohio has what you speak of. I believe they have two (2) of them. Tandem axle Duplex tractor chassis pulling LTI aerials but no pumps or tanks. It may help you out some though. Check them out. Be safe.

    Larry

  8. #8
    Aerial Trainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    American Lafrance Aerials Have been the only tandem axle tillers I have see. The City Of Columbus OH has 2 LTI Duplex units in service at the present time and 4 tandem axle ALF units on order. 3 of them will be delivered in June, 2001. the older ones are 1997 units and they seem to like these units. You may see a photo of a tandem axle tiller at http://www.americanlafrance.com/NewDeliveries/?id=51
    This link will also provide you with a contact and spec's.

  9. #9
    ac52
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    The last two posts are correct. Columbus, Ohio has two tandem rear tractors from LTI.
    I saw them there on the assembly line back in '97. I don't know the reasoning behind it is, but, they are nasty looking rigs!

    LHS* may be right. I wondered about turning radius myself when I saw them.

  10. #10
    DonRobbie
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    As far as the trurning radius goes, here is a crazy idea, what about a self steering tag axle for the third axle on the tractor? It could partially offset the longer wheelbase and give some manuverability back. You'd have to deal with the potential hassles (locking it to back up, possbly getting high centered, etc). Just a thought.

  11. #11
    FEOBob
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Thanks for the info.
    I've recieved a couple of e-mail telling me about a Pierce Tandem axle tiller in Eugene OR. Supposed to be a picture at EFD's web site.

    We have a 1990 75' LTI quint that has a tag axle, and have had mixed results. The newer quints (1993 Pierce) we have bought have standard tandem axle rear ends, and have the same turn radius.

  12. #12
    JohnM
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I was at LTI Monday doing a final inspection on our tiller. I saw 3 each of the tandem Columbus tillers. Quite impressive. I believe one of the LTI guys told us they are equipped with the 750 lb tip load heavy duty aerials. They looked like they were ready for delivery. Maybe if you call LTI, they could e mail you some pics of them.

  13. #13
    Ggg
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    You will wear out more rear tires with a "twin screw" due to some more tire scrub in the turns. I don't think that the turning radius will be effected much. But your rear tire traction in the snow will be worse than a similar weight vehicle with a single rear axle.WA must have some light weight restrictions for class 8 vehicles. Or the pump and tank are adding a lot of weight.I would persue getting a weight restriction waiver from the state.

  14. #14
    M1NFD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I dont know what is the driving force in looking into a Tiller/Quint, but if I had to make the choice, I would opt to keep the stick at the greatest length possible, as a well placed tiller/quint is no better than a pumper if you dont have the reach I am on a combination department that runs a tiller aerial, and mutual aid is plentiful enough with both pumpers and ladders where quint aerials are not really big in demand, and the ones that exist are staffed as one or the other and never perform as both anyway, but if the goal is an effective aerial, if you are in a rural area like us, then you will use the 100' for reach more often than not.
    Good luck and let us know what you find/decide

  15. #15
    FEOBob
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Got some drawings of the Columbus specs, and also for a proposal for Rancho Cucamonga CA.

    There has now been some preliminary work done on specs for our rig, and the overall length is supposed to come out to 65', around ten feet longer than our 1977 ALF. This is too long for the station it is supposed to go to. Too long for any of our stations for that matter. So now there is talk of building a new station.
    As you can see, it will probably be another year before we see firm specs and bid requests.

    Interestingly, both of the drawings I recieved had rigs that came in at around 59 feet long. I'll try to find out why ours is expected to be so long.

    Thanks for the information.
    Bob

  16. #16
    M1NFD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Just a followup on the tire scrub, we have a 6000 gallon tanker on a mack chassis with tandem rear axles as well as a tag. Rule is no turning into driveways with the tag down, but we havent had any real problem with the tires wearing and thats probably more weight than your tractor might see.

  17. #17
    heatseeker
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Several people have made reference to Columbus. They also have quite a few Sutphen Aerials. They are 95 and 100 foot mid-mounts. They utilize aluminum box booms and are the strongest aerials made. They have used this design and building mid-mounts for probably twenty years. Check them out. I think there web site is www.sutphen.com.

  18. #18
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    I don't think I'd use Conn. as a guide to truck anything.Conn. HATES trucks.I'd like to see every truck in the US stay out of Conn.for two weeks.Then maybe they would figure out where their food comes from.The only bad experiences I ever had Trucking were in the blue tag state.T.C.

    [ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Rescue 101 ]

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Mamaroneck Fire Department
    Posts
    4

    Default

    We actually have a 1995 Sutphen 105' Tractor Drawn Aerial http://www.vmfd.org/Hook_Ladder/Ladder_20_pictures.asp. This picture is old since the truck has since been modified, but it is worth while to look at and is a work horse.
    Richard Sudol
    Captain
    Village of Mamaroneck

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