05-30-2001, 09:49 PM #1N2DFireFirehouse.com Guest
If you had to pick one thing . . .
. . . for your next truck that you'd give up every thing else for - what would it be (Aside from the basics of pump, tank, and water) ?
. . . about your current truck that you'd never do the same way again - What would it be and why ?
The outpost station of my Dept. (opened 2 years ago) is getting ready to purchase their very first new truck and I thought this would be a fun way of getting ideas for things to include/exclude.
So jump in folks and lets have some fun.
Take Care - Stay Safe
Brain Bubble - I didn't think till this morning that I should'nt have said "truck" because people will think Ladder Truck (and rightly so) - what I really should have said was new Engine/Pumper.
Sorry Folks - My mistake. I'll report for 1000 lashes with a wet noodle this weekend.
Please keep the ideas coming.
[This message has been edited by N2DFire (edited 05-31-2001).]
05-30-2001, 10:15 PM #2mongofire_99Firehouse.com Guest
You're asking a lot, not sure I'd give up anything.
But! What would I like to see done different?
Tighter turning radius
Shorter jack spread and, if it's possible, get a faster hydraulic pump to speed up the set up of the jacks.
No hose chute, something similar to E-Ones side stacker for the LDH.
Less complicated pump panel - our fault for not laying it out right.
Lower crosslays over the pump.
TIC on the tip with monitors in the cab and operator positions.
05-31-2001, 12:02 PM #3LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
//No hose chute, something similar to E-Ones side stacker for the LDH.
Loaded a whopping 1800 feet of 5 inch on a side stacker yesterday.
05-31-2001, 06:52 PM #4Nick SBFD 6Firehouse.com Guest
05-31-2001, 07:16 PM #5CarpandeanFirehouse.com Guest
Truck as in aerial?
Or Truck as in any vehicle with two or more axles (pumpers, aerials, rescues, ...)?
Have to ask ... I had assumed any vehicle, but discussion has focused on aerials.
06-04-2001, 10:43 AM #6FireOneFirehouse.com Guest
Keep the 1 3/4 jump line in the extended front bumper, if not add another.
Go with more speed lay mid-ship preconnects.
Do not use hard deck hose bed covers.
Go with adding 2 inch attack line as preconnect.
Utilize the new TFT Blitzfire portable nozzle on the 2 1/2 attack line.
06-05-2001, 01:27 AM #7CorvinFirehouse.com Guest
Sorry to hear your hose fell off your rig. Don't feel bad though it happens to a lot of folks.
Keep it small, simple and mission oriented. If it is a gadget or electronic and can be eliminated, skip it, esp if the rig is going to around 20+ years.
06-05-2001, 03:36 AM #8LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
//Sorry to hear your hose fell off your rig. Don't feel bad though it happens to a lot of folks.
I never said that
06-05-2001, 09:39 AM #9N2DFireFirehouse.com Guest
Thanks for the input so far folks - please keep ideas and suggestions coming.
Corvin (Chris), the KISS principle is one we are definitely going to apply - and a 20 year life span would be great around here - truth of the matter is that the outpost station is running our old tanker (which was in service at our station until late last year) - it is a 1972 Oren 300 GPM (SAE) PTO Pump which we bought new and has been in active service since then. Still runs like a champ too.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Take Care - Stay Safe
06-05-2001, 12:36 PM #10LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
The simpler the better is what I'd suggest.
I saw a rig yesterday a 1996 Ferrera 1500/1500 where the FD had covered over their top mount pump panel with a locking stainless steel plate so it could no longer be used again.
Why, it was too confusing to teach all the members of the small FD to operate.
They mounted a Fire Research electronic governor with intake and discharge pressure gauges builtin in the cab next to the pump shift. They have a gong on the roof to indicate high engine temp, trands temp, alternator issues etc. The Class A foam control head is now hidden from operatur use and is left in the always on position. The generator was removed from the rig and 12 volt flood lights were positioned in all four direction in fixed mounts, that would always come on when the pump was engaged. A set of huge water level gauges were located on three sides of the rig.
I'd say they removed 50% of the rarely used crap they used to carry in the compartments as well.
The side suctions now have exterior valves at the point of use and the side discharges are all stored with the valves open with water thiefs or wyes attached. The cross lays now hook to the side panel wyes versus their individual plumbing. Three electric switches on three side of the rig allow filling the water tank, opening or closing the tank suction or priming the pump from either side suction or front suction.
The deck gun valve is under the gun for the operator to control.
They removed all the excess switches in the cab, headlight switches, excess gauges, siren control head, etc. All the drains, presure gauges, and control linkages are no longer used.
Their normal operations now involve engaing the pump shift hitting the preset button on the governor and everything comes on. Then they pull a line and open the spigot.
Guess what? Everyone can pump ther rig now. Their fires go out, too.
Their training time is on other things. They will order a new pumper this year setup the same way without a pump panel.
06-05-2001, 02:11 PM #11Resq14Firehouse.com Guest
It makes a lot of sense to me. Unfortunately unconventional thinking doesn't always get supportd though--or at the very least, entertained.
06-06-2001, 09:55 AM #12ChiefMcDFirehouse.com Guest
LHS*, sound like a great idea.
How would you supply a pemounted deck gun, 2 - 1 3/4" lines, supply another truck, etc. all at the same time without guages?
It sounds like a good idea if you are going to flow only one type of discharge at every fire.
06-06-2001, 12:48 PM #13LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
//How would you supply a pemounted deck gun, 2 - 1 3/4" lines, supply another truck, etc. all at the same time without guages?
They transfer water rig to rig with 1 3/4" hose so the same EDP is used for an attack line as a supply line. So where they wodl be flowing 200 gpm out of the fog tip they'd transfer 300 gpm to another rig. Deck gun and two 1 3/4" lines, simple, they leave the fog tip an akron automatic with flow ring at 500 gpm, it balances itself to the EDP of the 1 3/4" lines need. IF more flow is needed the flow ring is turned to 750 and the governor keeps up with the EDP need of 180 psi, same if the ring is turned to 1000 or 350.
06-07-2001, 07:26 PM #14fireman_387Firehouse.com Guest
one thing I would like to see changed from our current trucks.... the letters ... E - O N E !!!!
06-08-2001, 11:37 AM #15TCFD12Firehouse.com Guest
Wil-Burt light tower - 9000W. Use these more than any other equipment.
Also, hydraulic gen set, sick of loud, high maintenance diesel gen set.
Front bumper discharges.
Headset in cab. What a difference this makes with communicating with your crew.
Make sure cab has plenty of room for crew AND their gear.
TRUMBULL CENTER FD
06-14-2001, 01:30 PM #16N2DFireFirehouse.com Guest
Nudge to the top.
Please keep ideas & suggestions coming.
Take Care - Stay Safe
06-14-2001, 02:44 PM #17Gooch26Firehouse.com Guest
The best advice I think I could say is, keep your preconnects low. I don't know how many engines I've seen that you have to be 7 foot tall and them some to reach them. Most of the one's I've seen with everything out of reach have been rescue pumpers. The hose beds usually end up really high up there on this type of pumper too. Ummm about the only other thing I can think of right now is gated suctions. On our engine we have butterfly valves on both our main midship suctions. We also have a front suction and it is gated off the pump panel. Our water system in town isn't much good, so even when we hit a hydrant, we end up on water from a tanker shuttle if we have anything of consequence. So when we switch over from the hydrant to the supply pumper, we just close the suction valve rather than the hydrant. That way if we lose our water from the other engine all we have to do to get water again is open a butterfly valve. Well, I hope this helps, God bless and stay safe.
Randall Guntrum FF/EMT
If lights, sirens and airhorns do not attract the attention of a driver, he or she is too drunk to be assisted by a paint scheme.
06-15-2001, 04:16 PM #18larry cookFirehouse.com Guest
Get a light tower and a bigger gen set than what you will think need. Several dividers on the hose bed for different hose loads so that it can be either a supply engine or an attack engine. some kind of cover for the pump operator ( for a top mount or a slide out above a side mount pump panel to help protect the pump operator.) It might be wise to include all the loose equipment in your specs. LC.
06-15-2001, 05:28 PM #19hfdfaoFirehouse.com Guest
We just received a 2000 E-One Cyclone 2. One thing I would change is the crosslays. The next Town over bought a Pierce, and the crosslays are mounted ventically right behind the cab. ie. 1 3/4 on the bottom, 1 3/4 in the middle and 2 1/2 on the top. They are in slide out trys that can be removed for repacking. And the short guys can still reach the knob. Also we have a Westerbeek generator that is also our Hurst tool power supply. SWEET! setup.
May your vents be leeward, your searches be negative, and your overhaul complete......
06-16-2001, 01:52 AM #20mongo1826usaFirehouse.com Guest
you should look around your first due then your second then put on the stuff you need to do the job for the next 10 years. If you put out the money for any (truck) engine/pumper or what ever make it what works in your area. Kool
06-18-2001, 09:15 PM #21trumpeter75Firehouse.com Guest
1. I'd get rid of the top-mounted pump and make the truck 4 or 5 feet shorter and easier to maneuverin the older parts of town.
2. ladder rack for more compartment space
3. front bumper intake for hydrant connection
4. PLAN CAREFULLY before placing equipment on board
06-18-2001, 10:37 PM #22tmnkwdFirehouse.com Guest
How about a fur covered steering wheel cover?
[This message has been edited by tmnkwd (edited 06-18-2001).]
06-19-2001, 04:39 PM #23benson911Firehouse.com Guest
Two things about our new truck that I love are:
1.Hydraulic generator - just flip the switch in the cab and plug in or switch on what you want.
2. Ladder storage through the tank - the ladders are at people height, so they're easy to remove and store.
Two things I don't like on our new truck:
1. It's too short - get a tall cab so you can really use the space inside. We had to limit our cab height due to station space requirements.
2. Mount your mirrors forward of your windshield - so called "bus mirrors" are much better than trying to look around the officer blocking your mirror with his arm, head or belly.
LHS - If the department with the "simple" truck has a long lay of hose, how do they provide the volume needed with 1.75" lines at say over 1000'? I like the concept, but worry about the limitations of not having options for hose size, equipment, etc.
06-19-2001, 05:38 PM #24*LHSFirehouse.com Guest
If the department with the "simple" truck has a long lay of hose, how do they provide the volume needed with 1.75" lines at say over 1000'?
May I ask, who is using 1000 foot hose lines??? I bet pulling the second one is a real bitch. Pray tell what do you use for hose( sizes, EPs, nozzles, etc) on a 1000 foot hose lay? Can you lay a back up?
If every home can be reached by preconnects and they can, who cares about options?
But, for argument sake, break the attack lines, hook them to the supply bed and lay 4 inch out and pump and the same predetermined pressure.
So let's see: A 150 foot 1 3/4" preconnect flows 233 gpm at 180 psi EP.
That same attack line at the end of a 850 foot 4 inch line (850 plus 150 equals 1000 feet) at the same preset pressure would drop all the way down to 223 gpm.
Of course that flow would drop to 210 gpm with two lines off the end or 196 with three lines or only 134 gpm with four lines.
Or it would stay within 10 to 23 gpm of the original flow for 3 or 4 lines if two 4 inch lines were laid for supply.
Course a portable monitor could be connected to the hose at 1000 feet and you'd see 923 gpm with one line or twice that with two!
When they lay the entire 2800 foot 4 inch bed and hook it to a 1 3/4" line they'd get 156 gpm at the same pre-set EP.
// I like the concept,
Yeah me too!
//but worry about the limitations of not having options for hose size, equipment, etc.
Can you imagine losing 10 gpm because the line is 850 feet longer than normal? Do you think the fire wil notice? If they are flowing more than Detroit, more than LA City and more than FDNY out of an attack line they should be OK, shouldn't they?
What other things worry you about the setup?
We've got a cover on Fire House this issue where the pump operator won't begin to properly pump a line correctly. We have a cover of Fire Engineering where the guys don't wear eye protection or gloves to break glass. The opening photo story on FH.com shows a 6 alarm fire where a tower can make water squirt on arrival, it must wait 3 to 5 minutes for a pumper to supply it. It also shows a line with a small smooth bore 15/16 I be being used on a warehouse, probably been better to pull a booster and take the load off the storm sewer for as much good it is doing. You also see the smallest tip on a deck gun still in place. YOu'll also see air packs when the waist belts are gone, shoulder straps not tightened, flashlites off at night, no chin straps in use, Still another shows a chief in short sleves standing in the collapse zone under a power line. Still another with three firefighters standing on top of a burnout porch. Seems the human factor is the week link. We certainly don't want to take the fun out.
I'd bet 99.99999% of the time the pre-set thing will be perfect and their flows will be higher than the average Fd, even out to 2950 feet.
06-22-2001, 02:28 PM #25jizumper-5Firehouse.com Guest
I will stick with Engines.
Best things (good things we did):
KISS-keep it simple stupid! built it for the job it is ment to do (don't duplicate services)
a foam system (Class-A or CAFS)
What to chang can be summed up in one word:
KME!!! (fixed that problem)
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