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Thread: Drafting Truck

  1. #1
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    Default Drafting Truck

    Need info on a truck strictly used for drafting water nothing else.We do not want to tie up a pumper at the water draft site.Anyone have any suggestions?


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    Forum Member WestTac1's Avatar
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    In my area,these vehicles are refered to as source pumpers. They are usually on a commercial 4x4 chassis, sport a front mounted pump, a large amount of 5" hose, and several lengths of hard suction. These trucks are used exclusively for water supply/tanker fill functions and do not partcipate in fire attack. They are 3rd due, after the intial attack engine and the tanker.

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    Forum Member 911WACKER's Avatar
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    Try looking back through the last 5-6 years of fire-rescue they had a few articles on trucks like this in the rural water supply column- great idea's that can be fitted to your own needs, lots of ldh and a front mount pump with 4-wheel drive is the way to go if you can afford it.
    Firefighter/NREMT-P/Public Safety Diver
    May we ride into the darkness only to return as safe as we started!!

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    Consider a front mount pump on a 4x4 truck. A department next to us has a 500 gpm front mount on a Chevy pick-up. It works geat for tanker filling. Keep in mind that a pump rated at 500 gpm will pump much more in a low pressure situation. Being light and 4x4 it can get through soft soil to the edge of ponds and streams.

    We have a slide in unit in the back of our grass truck. It has a 18hp Honda powered pump. We use it for tanker filling but, it's not as fast as a front mount.

    W.S. Darley also sells a 64hp portable pump. It uses an aircraft engine coupled to a Darley fire pump. I have not seen it in action but, I hear it's an awsome pump. You can check it out at : www.edarley.com

    Stay Safe

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    VVFD231 - We run a IHC 4900 4x4 with a front mount 1250 GPM and 4000 feet 5" on a reel for water supply. Unit carries no water only hose and adappters used to fill tankers and/or relay to the incident. Works well for us we can do about 1750 from draft with dual suction in the water, fill tankers at 1200-1500 GPM depending on the tankers plumbing and/or venting.
    SBLG

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Items to think about:
    -- Dual Suctions will increase your pump capacity well above rating.
    -- Use long, lightweight suctions -- less couplings to tighten, less time to set up.
    -- Consider keeping a suction (or two) preconnected as a Squirrel Tail. Again, less set up time
    -- Jet Siphons like the TurboDraft (www.turbodraft.net) can significantly augment your pump's capacity
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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  7. #7
    blackb16
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    Use a pair of 6 inch Turbo drafts with a 750 gpm pump and as long as you are within 400 feet of the static water and your lift is less than 40 feet you get 1600 to 3200 gpm to fill or transfer.

    Who needs hard suction.

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    I have seen several of these trucks in different fashion but all basically had the same concept. WATER SUPPLY! Some were designed to reverse lay LDH from the fire to the water. The first one I rememeber was Rehobeth Beach FD in Delaware. They had a mid seventies CF Mack with a 2000gpm single stage pump, 500 gallon tank, two hanney reels with 1500' of 5' each and six 10' hard sleeves. The truck had dual 6" intakes on both side panels a 1500 GPM perminate stang gun, and two dedicated 4" LDH discharge valves. NOW That truck was built to KICK *** in the water supply department! Not sure if they have it anymore. Another department closer to me has a very similar unit. Marietta PA. There Mack is also a CF but have a body by Pierce. Somewhat similar set-up. Remember that both of these towns are near large bodies of water. In the more rural side I have seen mini-pumpers with 1000gpm front mounted pumps. (Creek Busters)They work well to get into hard to access water locations. The problems were that most of them would just barely pass 1000gpm pump test and those that were gas motors would run hot and overheat. In the late eighties Jacksonville FD located in northern Baltimore Conunty MD had a 750gpm front mount pump built on a Dodge D350 4X4 with a Cummins Diesel. It was a water supply unit to and carried some LDH. Can't say that I have ever seen one on a new Ford F series diesel yet. To take a this a step further I have seen pictures of several trucks which were larger and combined both of these principles into one truck. Some of the New England States use to use these supply/reel trucks alot.
    If you wanter a good all around water supply unit here is what I would recommend you check out. Start buy talking with some of the true custom apparatus builders. (The smaller ones seem to like these projects best.) Saulsbury has built a few of these units but they are very pricey. Most of the smaller custom builders will be willing to consider this task.
    Here's what I would buy if the budget could afford it:
    All wheel drive chassis
    Diesel 300hp minuimum/Automatic Trans.
    1500GPM front mount pump (Hale or Darley)
    (Rear Mount pumps are ok too - just depends on your area and operations.
    Have the builder make a custom intake manifold with two 6" gated intakes.
    (similar unit was featured in Fire/Rescue Mag. awhile back)
    Dual Oiless Primer Motors with dual controls
    Aluminum or PolyBilt Poly Body
    (to try to maximize total weight savings)
    T shaped water tank at the front of the body
    Frame Mounted Winch on the opposite end of the unit as the pump
    (capasity must be over truck GVW)
    If you choose a front mount pump then get a Hanney LDH reel at the rear of the body
    (So much eachier to pick it up - especially during the daytime)
    If you decide against the reel but go with a fornt mounted pump you will still have a
    deep hosebed at the rear of the body
    (easy to load amd lay out from)
    Have builder custom build a discharge manifold for your pump with a 4" Akron discharge (keep in mind the direction spins on your pump) make LDH discharge facing the left or right side - only add the additional discharges you absolutely need.
    Go with 12' or 15' hard sleeves and get 6" stortz locking couplings with folding handles.
    Carry a minimum of 4 sleeves
    Two Floating Strainers
    Two low level strainers with Jet siphons
    All with 6" stortz locking coupling
    Ground Ladders, Damming boards or tarps
    Adapters and other needed equipment
    Small generator and 4 quatrz lights (Honda?)
    Two preconnected attack lines minimum
    (even though it's a supply piece you just never know when it might get it's chance)
    Minimum of 200' of 3" hose
    Also consider two Turbo Draft water eductors or two 600gpm portable pumps from CET or Darley-for that one time you can't reach the water)
    This truck will be a great water supply creator. Now train your operators in all the different situations you may be faced with.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Very good list Neil...

    Here's my tweaks to it:

    If you choose a front mount pump then get a Hanney LDH reel at the rear of the body
    (So much eachier to pick it up - especially during the daytime)


    Don't know the cost of these systems, but I don't think reels are the best systems anymore. Look at Angus UK's FETCH system --
    still easy to pickup, with the option to lay one long line or a dual lay a regular hose bed:
    [img]http://www.angusfire.co.uk/images/pics/fetlanc.JPG[/img

    Have builder custom build a discharge manifold for your pump with a 4" Akron discharge (keep in mind the direction spins on your pump) make LDH discharge facing the left or right side

    Not as practical with a front mount, but if you end up with a midmount or rearmount pump have the manufacturer plumb a side or rear discharge away from the pump operator capable of full flow or more from the pump. Away from pump op for safety reasons. Work with their engineers -- if you're gonna be able to draft 1700 or 1800gpm with dual suctions, gotta be able to send it up the hose.

    Go with 12' or 15' hard sleeves and get 6" stortz locking couplings with folding handles.
    We run 30' sections without a problem. Consider keeping the one of the suctions connected as a squirrel tail so you don't need to make any connections -- just drop it in the water.

    All with 6" stortz locking coupling
    Look into using Cam-Lock couplings instead -- they're what the petroleum, chemical, and most other industries that move a lot of fluids use. Unlike Storz, there's no lining up to be done -- just pop them into one another and pull back on the ears to lock in place.

    Photos from http://www.dixonvalve.com/camgroove.html

    Small generator and 4 quatrz lights (Honda?)
    Remote start is a big plus.
    We typically reverse lay -- generator gets fired up as we start to lay (or need to turn around first!), 2 lights rear, 2 to the side -- Driver has good view of the hose, especially so he can power off more hose from the reel when going around corners.

    We also have a rear-mounted camera so the driver can see the hose easily. Again, also makes it easy if the driver has to back into the driveway of the fire location, even if it's just to turn around before he can lay.

    [ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Dalmatian90 ]
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    Hey Dalmation great replys. Sounds like U guys did your homework too! Is what I like to see. I sell apparatus part time for a small custom builder here in PA. I also help in the design of some apparatus that I sell. I know for a fact that you can pipe a 4" full flow discharge on a front mount pump but the discharge manifold will have to be built. I am not fimilar with the angus system but I sure will check out. As for thr Cam Locks I have not yet used them personally. I have used the 6" Stortz with folding handles. 30' sleeves are great if you can store them. I said 15' because most apparatus bodies are at least that long. Preconnected sleeves are the perfect way to go if it can be done. I would recommend that if you buy a front mount and get long sleeve that you buy one 5'to 10' long hard sleeve for nosing up to portable pond or other close source. If you go with a midship mounted pump then a rear suction is the way to go. Less bends than a front and almost all can be 6" piping. Keep me posted on more stuff guys and I will keep pluging away. Email me and let me know if you want info. on the apparatus company I sell for. I would be glad to send it to you. Thanks and take care. FireGuyNeil

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    I would suggest calling Evergreen Fire Department in Evergreen, Colorado 303-674-3145 ask for Brad Ruder.

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    If your problem is not haveing enough water on a scene, then maybe you should try to get a tanker. My dept. has recently bought 6 new tankers that hold 3000 gallons of water with a 1500 gpm pump. All of the tankers come with a 3000 gallon dump tank and we put a 20ft. section of hard suction on the back to put in the dump tank so we could draft out of it. On a scene we do tanker shuttles with 3 or so of these trucks and we have never run out of water. We also have a Turbo Draft. This device enables you to draft water out of a pond or a pool at a very fast rate(1500 gpm or so) We also put a 6ft. pieces of hard suction on the front bumper of our pumpers to make it easier to draft off the front of pumpers into a dump tank.
    The views I express are not the same views as my Dept.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    30' sleeves are great if you can store them. I said 15' because most apparatus bodies are at least that long.

    What's a common "retrofit" on traditional style trucks with three suction hose trays on the side in my area is a 20' length of flexible suction with the strainer kept connected. It's stored as a "U" taking up the bottom and top trays. Looks odd at first, but gives you a quick 20' length. Then another 10' is stored in the middle tray just like normal.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    If price is a concern (and seeing how your from the South, it usually is)-- see if you can find a used mid seventies front mt pumper with a bad tank and /or body. There are tons of pumpers in the midwest--usually on Ford F series-- with front mounted pumps-usually Darleys or Bartons--- dont be afraid of a Barton 500 gpm-all you have to do to upgrade a UA-50 to 750 plus is change the intake size and bolt on another discharge. These trucks still have YEARS of service left in them- most just look rough.

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    bump

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    Check this out.

    1250 pump 4,000 feet of 4"

    Short and Low
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5354/trucks.html scroll down til you see this pic........
    Last edited by Weruj1; 10-30-2010 at 08:32 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    http://www.localfirehouse.com/apparatus/3.html scroll down for this vehicle ....
    Last edited by Weruj1; 10-30-2010 at 08:32 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  19. #19
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    One of the neatest draft trucks I've seen in awhile is in Ct. Trumbull if I remember right.A nice Mack with a long preattached "squirrel tail.It's been posted on the site before.If I can find it,I'll link it. T.C.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Maverick9110E's Avatar
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    heres our hole pumper:



    1500 g.p.m. Hale pump
    500 gallon booster tank
    Cummins Turbo Diesel 355 NTB
    5-speed manual transmission
    open 5-man cab
    1 - 1 3/4” preconnected handline
    3” supply hose
    5” LDH hose
    3 side-mounted hard suction bars
    ice-breaking tools/ice-saw
    turbo-draft device



    were looking into replacing it which to me seems not to good of an idea (so do some other members) this thing will power through even the newest engines around, the motor and the pump we have in this thing is insane. but wer are actually looking to replacing it in the next half a year or so, with most likely and American LaFrance commercial cab and chassis. idk the whole specs on the truck seeing as how im not on the truck committee.

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