1. #1
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    Default Seagrave Warranty Problems

    Anyone else having problems with Seagrave. Our 97 has been developing rust problems around door latches and cab windows for the past 2 1/2 years. Our dealer has been totally uncooperative, to the point his local rep resigned. We finally got a factory guy to look at our problem and were told to find a local shop and get an estimate. No one will touch it. One small local apparatus builder even advised us to get a lawyer. Seagrave is even trying to pro rate our coverage to this year and is only offering to pay a portion of the repair. Any one else having problems??

  2. #2
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    our 98 segrave/LTI tower ladder has had some glitches latley, but no rust... its a pain to get things fixed properly with the communication chain that our repair orders have to go through
    " truck till the casket drops "

    www.lynbrookfd.org

    My views and opinions do not represent the views and standards of the Department or Company that I belong to.

  3. #3
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    Is this an aluminum body? It most likely is. There are several problems with what appears to be "Rust" on aluminum bodys. Bubbling under teh paint around handles, hinges and screws. The actual problem is dissimilar metals. This is solved by spraying a product to change the surface properties of the unlike metals. ECK is the product we use on our vehicles. We have had this happen to many vehicles prior to our ALF. They explaine why our Pierce vehicles were "rusting". Since then, no problems.

    Jodi
    Go Pack!!!

  4. #4
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    The body is galvaneal. The problem started around the door handles, under the gaskets, and is spreading. Also have small paint blisters below the windshield gasket (rubber).

  5. #5
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    ENG6511's Avatar
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    I am refurbing a unit now. What happens with the galvanized steel is that when they drill holes or leave edges anywhere they "break" the galvanize and do not protect the "break" with a another material that takes the place of the galvanize. Takes to much time and labor and as a result cost so the builder can be the low bidder.
    Bob Compton
    IACOJ-Proud
    IACOJ-HALL OF FAME-2003

  6. #6
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    If the trucks were manufactured correctly there wouldnt be any rust problems.

  7. #7
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    Thumbs up

    We have few warranty issues with E 1. Before our fleet was all E 1, we had problems with other manufacturers. We ATE alot of problems because the salesmen and our Maint. Officer were too spineless to make those companies fix anything. Now they know we won't back-off til the problem is fixed. If you are spending alot of $$ per engine - you deserve the after the sale attention that is rolled into the price. The first way to keep from having problems is to spec the apparatus properly. If you have some issues with future rust or corrosion problems, put it on paper that you want a certain number of years with no problems. We just sent an engine back to E 1 for frame rails splitting. It was a 1985 maybe. They didn't want to fix it but we stuck to our guns- the warranty for the frame was lifetime.They are now putting rails on both sides even though only one had split from rust. If the manufacturer thinks you are not savvy they will take advantage of you. If they think you are heads up and will not be easily turned over, they will treat you with a little more respect! Our salesman is Tom Dauchy. He is a prince among salesmen. We have a pretty good working relationship with him and he makes sure we are being properly served. He knows we use our equipment hard. It has to work properly. We have the busiest heavy rescue in the US, Squad 1, and the 4th busiest engine, Engine 16. Our busy engines get 100K miles on them inside of 4 1/2 years-all in a 3 square mile area. If our guys can't reduce something to dust-it is pretty durable. Just recieved delivery of 4 Peterbilt engines with 2 more from the same spec on order. I will try to post a pic.

  8. #8
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    What does your warranty say about corrosion? If your having problems getting them to work on it, it's probably not covered anymore. If your getting that much rust this early.. that thing is going to be problems forever. Fix the rust and cut your losses, then buy stainless!

  9. #9
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    I believe in this day and age that you only get what you paid for. One of the biggest problems with the older apparatus was rust. Why would anyone even consider buying a steel apparatus body in this day and age? Beats me. Who cares what the apparatus builders tell you about how they treat the steel. Think about this one. Take a typical silver galvanized steel garbage can. After one year of use the bottem still rusts and falls out. Steel will eventually rust reguardless of how you treat it unless you can guarantee it will remain sealed. A fire truck - no way! As for mixing metals - electroisis - is most common in aluminum constructed apparatus. When this happens this will cause the paint to peal off and make what looks like rust bubbles or white rust. Unfortunately this happens frequently in apparatus built in a hurry. (Assembly line apparatus) <br />I do feel that if an aluminum fire apparatus body is built/constructed properly and finished properly you will have a great end product. If both price and total weight are not considerations then stainless steel is the best way to go. <br />I am also a strong believer that you don't have to buy a truck from one of the big 4 apparatus builders to get a well built fire truck. Actually if you take away the name tags, the fancy paint jobs, the fancy flashing lightings,all the the chrome, and all the HYPE, and then really compair how the apparatus is constructed you may find that some of the smaller builders actually build a better fire truck than any of the big 4. WOW - Hard to imagine huh! Most FF's would never admit that. If they never noticed, most of the things used to build apparatus are components. All of these are made by other companies and not the builders. These components are used by everyone building fire apparatus. Thus is the same for chassis. All use the same motors, transmissions, axles, and other components. Buy your chassis based on the configuration you need and not the name tag on the front or side. <br />FF's will argue the name tag war for the next twenty years and not much will change. <br />#1 Anyone who builds and sells you a piece of apparatus should stand behind their product. If they won't then you need to get a lawyer involved. Also remember that Pennsylvania's Lemon Laws also apply to fire apparatus.<br />Since I am not that far away, feel free to contact me and I would be glad to help your you and your department with any additional information you may need to get through this process. I have been down this road once before and I may have some contacts that might be of some help. I can also say if I sold it to you I would be there to make this right. Your salesman did show you some loyality by resigning from his dealership when they refused to help. GOOD FOR HIM! Feel free to email me and I will email you or call you. Thanks and be safe. FGN <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

  10. #10
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    This rust issue goes way back in time with this post. Its too bad we cant get everyone on the same page with this one, it would really be interesting.This subject DANCES with this builder.

  11. #11
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    Fire Guy, What you say is very true. There is alot of truth in looking to a small outfit. However when a big problem shows up (like frame rails) they may not be able to handle it properly. Or you may bankrupt them. The other side of the coin is that a big corp has many problems with communication. One hand does not always know what the other is doing. Like the shifts in an engine house. A bigger corp has more buying power and you get better pricing on many things. The little guy cannot compete unless he drops his profit margin. [quote]Originally posted by FireGuyNeil:<br /><strong>I believe in this day and age that you only get what you paid for. One of the biggest problems with the older apparatus was rust. Why would anyone even consider buying a steel apparatus body in this day and age? Beats me. Who cares what the apparatus builders tell you about how they treat the steel. Think about this one. Take a typical silver galvanized steel garbage can. After one year of use the bottem still rusts and falls out. Steel will eventually rust reguardless of how you treat it unless you can guarantee it will remain sealed. A fire truck - no way! As for mixing metals - electroisis - is most common in aluminum constructed apparatus. When this happens this will cause the paint to peal off and make what looks like rust bubbles or white rust. Unfortunately this happens frequently in apparatus built in a hurry. (Assembly line apparatus) <br />I do feel that if an aluminum fire apparatus body is built/constructed properly and finished properly you will have a great end product. If both price and total weight are not considerations then stainless steel is the best way to go. <br />I am also a strong believer that you don't have to buy a truck from one of the big 4 apparatus builders to get a well built fire truck. Actually if you take away the name tags, the fancy paint jobs, the fancy flashing lightings,all the the chrome, and all the HYPE, and then really compair how the apparatus is constructed you may find that some of the smaller builders actually build a better fire truck than any of the big 4. WOW - Hard to imagine huh! Most FF's would never admit that. If they never noticed, most of the things used to build apparatus are components. All of these are made by other companies and not the builders. These components are used by everyone building fire apparatus. Thus is the same for chassis. All use the same motors, transmissions, axles, and other components. Buy your chassis based on the configuration you need and not the name tag on the front or side. <br />FF's will argue the name tag war for the next twenty years and not much will change. <br />#1 Anyone who builds and sells you a piece of apparatus should stand behind their product. If they won't then you need to get a lawyer involved. Also remember that Pennsylvania's Lemon Laws also apply to fire apparatus.<br />Since I am not that far away, feel free to contact me and I would be glad to help your you and your department with any additional information you may need to get through this process. I have been down this road once before and I may have some contacts that might be of some help. I can also say if I sold it to you I would be there to make this right. Your salesman did show you some loyality by resigning from his dealership when they refused to help. GOOD FOR HIM! Feel free to email me and I will email you or call you. Thanks and be safe. FGN <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

  12. #12
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    When you look at a smaller manufacture or any manufacture I recommend that you contact several of there previous customers from at least a year ago if not further back. I also recommend that you ask them what kind of rate they are bonded at. This will tell you where they stand financiallly. The small apparatus manufacture that I currently represent can do anything you can dream up. They started as a fabrication company specializing in truck and train equipment. From there they got involved in refurbishing apparatus and this led them into the apparatus market. They still build specialized trucks that include bomb transport units, and units for the turnpike and state DOT. They also do an occasional remounting of an existing truck body on new chassis or other repairs. <br />Fire apparatus is now job one but they also try to accomidate any return business that comes their way. Return customers says alot about a businesss and they have alot of them. Take care and be safe. FGN. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

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