1. #1
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    Default Wildland / suburban interface rescue pumper

    Has anyone out there seen or had built for their FD a 4x4 midi rescue pumper. Something on either a Ford F-550 or a Freightliner or an International 4 door chassis.

    We are more interested in meeting the service type vehicle requirement by ISO but would like to be able to go off road and stand alone to fight fire if need be. A pump of 500-1000 gpm and a water tank of around 300-500 gallons and as much compartmentation as possible.

    Let's talk...

    Thanks,

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  2. #2
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    Fyredup, check out www.attackone.com for the mini-rescue/pumper on the Ford 550 chassis. Another thought is Boise Mobile Equipment ( http://www.bmefire.com )... they don't specify mini-pumper, but they do claim to do custom work. They have built type 6 wildland engines in the past, pretty good quality. On the heavier side (international/Freightliner type chassis), www.west-mark.com. They have built for California Dept. of Forestry and Fire, as well as other depts. On the subject of CDF, check out http://www.cdf.ca.gov/FireEmergencyR...ireEngines.asp to see if they have anything that would fit what you are looking for, or just give you ideas.

    [ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: RxFire ]
    IACOJ
    Stopping controlled burning DOES NOT stop the burning, only the control!
    http://www.wy.blm.gov/fireuse/fums.htm

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    This may not be exactly what you want, but it could be close. Take a look at the photo post section on the web site Rescue-Net: http://www.rescue-net.com/
    On 10-18 I posted a photo of a Ford Super Duty-Summit mini with a 500 gpm pump and 300 gallon tank.

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    I know these guys are kinda far away from you, but check out M&W Fire Apparatus in Vinton, VA.

    They started buisness in 1992 when Gruman (anyone remember them ?) went out of buisness. Their first type of truck was the small Mini Pumper / Brush Truck and even though they have expanded into a full line builder - the Mini/Midi pumper is still their "Bread & Butter" job.


    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic

    Hmm - proof read - proof read - proof read


    [ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: N2DFire ]
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

  5. #5
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    We have a Four Wheel Drive 1999 S&S on a Freightliner chasse. It has a 1000 gpm. pump, a 750 gal. booster tank, and a 130 gal. Foam tank with 3-6% Universal foam. There is a 95 gpm. bumper mounted remote control (from the drivers seat) Foam nozzle. There are 2 two 1 3/4" crosslays. Drivers side reel of 11/2 inch hard hose and an officers side reel with 11/2 flat forestry hose. The hose bed holds 1000 feet of three inch hose.

    Is this what you're looking for?

    Here's a link to the picture
    http://www.hersheyfire.org/engine48-2.htm

    Stay Safe

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    Thank you for your responses. I apologize for my slowness in responding. My computer got wiped out by a very nasty virus.

    PAVolunteer,

    Who built that rig?

    Thanks again to all of you,

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  7. #7
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    Four Wheel Drive 1999 S&S (Fire Apparatus) on a Freightliner chassis
    Their website is www.ssfire.com
    IACOJ
    Stopping controlled burning DOES NOT stop the burning, only the control!
    http://www.wy.blm.gov/fireuse/fums.htm

  8. #8
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    You might want to look at E-one's Quick attack Superlynx series for the F550. These trucks have vocation packages so you can set them up for different priorities.

    If you want bigger they have the Wildcat and Puma series also. Some awsome looking rigs. I saw the 2 Pumas that went to Quantanamo Bay, Awsome trucks. www.e-one.com/quickattack www.e-one.com/Wildlands www.traditionseries.com

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    Fyredup, Be very careful when designing such a truck! I speak from experience, bad experience! My Dept had, key word is had, a truck very similar to PAVolunteer's unit. It was a 4 door International, All Wheel Drive, 1250 rear mounted pump, 750 Gal Tank, front mounted bumper turret, Hale Class A & B foam system etc...
    It was designed as a "uban interface pumper" we used it as 1st run to MVA's, wildland fires, assist EMS basically everything except reported structure fires.,(it seems that they neglected to design in a second preconnected line or a way to get a supply line into the pump once it was running without taking off the 6"steamer port cap)

    The truck had some basic good ideas but was very poorly designed which is why I say be careful. It did not have sufficient GVWR for the weight and because of its 4WD chassis it had a high Center of Gravity which made it very hard to drive, especially on curves. Just about one year from its birth the driver lost control on a curve. The truck crossed the roadway sliding sidways, then rolled over. Four firefighters injured, one still not 100% back, (this happened over 1 year ago), truck totally destroyed.
    This happened not on an emergency run, but on a routine trip to get fuel! On a road that it travelled several times a week!
    Multi purpose trucks are OK, but remember pay real close attention to SAFETY AND DRIVEABILITY! Sometimes when we try to make a truck do many things, it does not do any of them really well. The biggest of these, in my opinion, is off-road and on-road. In general, a truck that is good for one is not that good for the other, so we need to look at where the truck will spend most of its time.
    If you are going to design/build such a truck do NOT compromise on anything that relates to the SAFE OPERATION of the truck. In particular demand a GVWR at least 4000 lbs. higher than the total estimated weight, INCLUDING CREW AND PORTABLE EQUIPMENT, of the completed truck, more if you can get it. Keep it safe! John.

  10. #10
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    FyredUp --

    We recently took delivery of a rig just like you are talking about. It was built locally using a new F-550 cab & chassis and remounting a pump and box from 1977 model Pierce mini-pumper. We elected to go with 4x2 since we don't have a major need for off road vehicles.

    Features: 5 man cab, 3 SCBA seats, 5K generator w/ 2 truck mounted 500W lights and 2 portable lights, 100' electrical cord on reel, 18" smoke ejector, 2 sections of 3" hard suction, 24' ext/14' roof/10' attic ladders, several pike poles, foam system with 15 gal each of Class A foam and emulsifier, 10,000lb winch, 400 gpm pump, 300 gal H2O tank, 6' spray bar under front bumper, 2 x 200' 1.75" attack lines, 200' 1" booster reel, 1" discharge in front bumper, 425' of 3" supply line. Pump has an additional 2.5" intake and 2.5" discharge on each side. We have flowed 600 gpm through it with a supply from a hydrant.

    Additional loose equipment: 1 set of Lukas rescue tools, cribbing, chainsaw, 10 gal class B foam, various wyes adapaters and fittings, 2 extra sections of 1.75 hose, tool boxes, salvage covers, 250' of 1" forestry hose with nozzle (in front bumper), dry chem and H2O extinguishers. Misc hand tools (Halligan / axes / shovel / hooks / bolt cutters / ect.)

    Fully loaded, it weighs in at 16,000 lbs, which is considerable less than the 17,500 lbs GVW -- I guess we need to get more stuff!

    We run the truck on most non-structure fire calls. We just went through an ISO inspection and recieved credit for it as a service company. Its not intended as a first out structural unit, but if does end up at a house fire, it has enough pump, hose and equipment to get started until the bigger trucks arrive.

    Because we were using an existing pump and box, we were limited in the amount of compartment space, tank size and hose bed available. With a new build truck, you should be able to get 500 gpm pump, 400 gal H2O and more hose. We could have put on another 300' of 3", but we elected to use some of the hosebed for storage. 425" will reach 90% of our hydrants.

    It handles very well and is a little slow off the line, but tops out at around 80mph. Because of the PTO pump, we had to go with a manual transmission.

    I will try to post a picture here in the near future. If you have any questions just drop me an e-mail.

  11. #11
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    PA Volunteer,

    Is your truck capable of pump and roll? Are there more pictures available? And....roughly what was the cost?

    <br />Looper,

    Any pictures?

    Thanks to all that responded.

    FyredUp

    [ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: FyredUp ]</p>

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    LOOPER, You state that fully loaded the truck weighs 16,000 on a 17,500 GVW chassis. Does that include the 5 man crew, with their gear? If not then add another 1200 pounds(or more) which would put you pretty close, especially for a truck that potentially could do over 60 MPH. At least you are under the GVWR of the chassis, our late truck was over GVWR.

    Best of luck with your new piece.

    Stay Safe!

    John

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    Thumbs down

    My department does operate a interface pumper. It's on a freightliner, 4X4, four door chassis with a 1000 gpm rear mount pump, 750 gallon tank and a BME body. The concept of the truck is just not sound. We use it as a first out on everything but routine medical calls. It was designed to be a structural pumper, brush rig, rescue truck and backup medical. It does none of these well. The center of gravity is to high and makes the four wheel drive option worthless. The angle of departure is terrible and because of it there is no tailboard to work from. The bottom of the hose bed is over 7 feet from the ground and we carry 1000' 5" hose. We have a separate high pressure pump mounted in the rear upper passenger side to operate two hose reels and a front bumper gun. You can't run the high pressure pump at the same time you use the main pump it pulls the water away (both intakes are next to each other). The compartments have roll up doors which get jammed from time to time when equipment trays unlatch and worse of all the roll up doors occupy an additional 15 cubic feet of potential compartment space. Because of the body configuration we have a three section 26' ladder on a hydraulic rack. Sometimes the rack does not want to work. The chassis is all electronic including the transmission and on several occassions the truck would not go into gear. I don't know if this is normal for BME vehcles but there is no manual mechanical backup to engage the main pump if the electronic pump shift fails. I could go on and on, most of the problems we have can be traced back to bad concept and poor planning for a vehicle. If you want a engine or service truck go get one but don't make are mistake. If it was my choice I would avoid this type of vehicle in the future and I certainly don't recommend other departments wasting money ($190.000)on one.

  14. #14
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    IN OUR DEPT. WE USE MILITARY SIX BY SIXS. THEY HOLD 1000 GAL POLY TANKS AND HAVE A SMALL PONY MOTOR THAT CAN DRAFT. ON THE FRONT THERE IS A LARGE "CAGE" TO STAND IN AND IT HAS 2 1-3/4" DECK GUNS. THEY ARE GREAT BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO DAMAGE THE TRUCKS AND THEY WERE MADE TO MILITARY STANDARDS SO THEY WILL GO ANY WHERE. THIER IS LOTS OF ROOM ON TOP OF THE TANK TO STORE EQUIPMENT PLUS THIER IS LOTS OF SPACE TO BUILD COMPARTMENTS. BECAUSE WE USE A HIGH GPM/PSI PONY MOTOR AND NOT A PTO PUMP WE CAN PUMP AND ROLL WITHOUT LOSS OF POWER. THE NEXT DEPT. OVER HAS BRAND NEW FREIGHTLINER/FERRERA BRUSH TRUCKS AND THEY ARE ALREADY FALLING APART FROM OFF ROAD USE. WE DO NOT RUN THE BRUSH TRUCK CODE-3 BECAUSE THEY DON'T STOP FAST OR TURN WELL OVER 45mph. OUR ENGINES GO INFRONT OF THEM TO CLEAR THE WAY. THEY MAY NOT LOOK SHARP BUT THE DO AN EXCELLENT JOB! THEY MIGHT BE TOO BIG FOR WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR BUT THEY CAN STAND ALONE ON A FIRE.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

  15. #15
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    Our intent is to build a vehicle to meet the service vehicle requirements for ISO. We are in need of a vehicle to carry our rescue equipment. The pump and 4 wheel drive are secondary considerations. We would be replacing essentially a 4x4 pick-up brush truck with a 500 gpm front mount pump and a 300 gallon tank. We have very little area where we need a "Brush truck" but occasionally we need to go off road and fight fire. The pump and hose bed more than likely will not meet NFPA for a pumper. For sure the hose bed will not as we do not want a massive top heavy vehicle with the 7 foot off the ground hose bed. Firefighting capability will be sacrificed before allowing size to become an issue.

    Compartmentation is the real issure here.

    Thanks,

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #16
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    Cool

    My recommendation to you would be either a 4 door conventional 4X4 chassis (Internation or Freightliner) or if your budget permits check out the Spartan Mountain Star 4X4 and HME SFO 4X4 chassis. Spartan is the most expensive but the cab is larger (seats 6 and has a raised roof) and the standard driveline has a heavy duty transfer case. HME cab seats 5 and is narrower. Both are excellent chassis. I would also recommend a rear mount pump. This way you will only lose one compartment instead of two and you will keep the water tank weight centered on the chassis and keep the overall length of the unit shorter. Over the past 5 years I have seen several units with similar designs and most were nice units. I would recommend that you consult a smaller custom apparatus builder to build this unit for you. Most of them will design the unit around what you want/require and will still keep the price affordable. Hope this helps. If you need any more information from me, feel free to contact me. Be safe and happy holidays. FGN <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

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    My old department runs several units like you described that we refer to as squads. The first generation units we built in house but, the newer units are E-One Super Lynx PR B127 (400 gpm / 300 gallons of water / 40 gallons of foam) units that we add the ems vocation group and part of the rescue vocation group (foam system, extended bumper, winch, and generator)to. Also the two newest trucks have the Pump and Roll vocation group on them. On a F-550 4x4 2-door chassis, with a GVWR of 17,500, the trucks weigh out at 16,700 without a crew of 2 but, they have a VERY heavy equipment load. They seam to be holding up very well.

    [ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: District_821 ]</p>

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