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  1. #1
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    Post Rural Water Supply

    Just wondering what kind of rigs you guys in areas without hydraunts run, as far as size of tankers. in articles i've seen tractor trailer water tankers, but for my area the roads are too tight. we have a 2001 Peterbilt / S and S fire 4285 gallon tanker with a 1500gpm pump (?). we've had some fires with it and it proves suitable for our use. we have hydraunts in about 20% of our district but mainly we rely on tankers/pools/ponds for our water.

    i don't know if any of your depts. out there have tractor trailer tankers, but they seem to work well if you can get them around the streets. so, my question is what does your dept use for rural water supply? if you have a tractor trailer tanker i'd like to see a pic if you have one.

    <br />bryan
    Round Hill Volunteer Fire Company- First in the Backcountry

  2. #2
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    Cool

    I work in a rural department, and we use two 1700gal tankers, a dump tank, pumper, and mutual aid. We just purchased a new 3000gal Semo with 500gpm and two 1 1/2 cross lays. This still will not be enough, so now we are trying to get a new contender w/1000gal so we can atleast survive until mutual aid arrives. We have a huge rural district so speed is a concern. I have seen a department in PA that has like a 5000gall semi trailer that they use. I believe it is also a Semo.
    Stay Safe/Stay Low Go 8 Car Go

  3. #3
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    yes, i cut the photo of their old and new one out of fire rescue mag. they were using a 1950's B model mack s/a tracotr pulling like a 5k gallon tanker. there was a clipping about it, and it said their new was one a semo /freightliner. i saw a photo of the new one without lettering in fire rescue and it is one nice truck. we have a 3k gallon drop tank on our tanker, our water source truck and main pumper sport 750 gallon tanks.

    <br />bryan
    Round Hill Volunteer Fire Company- First in the Backcountry

  4. #4
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    Post

    The Dept I'm in has no pressurised hydrants and about 10-15 draft hydrants. Our fleet consists of <br />E1-750 gal. tank (Pierce Saber 4X4)<br />E2-750 gal. tank (Pierce Commercial Chassis 4X4)<br />E4-1000 gal. tank (Pierce Dash)<br />Tanker 5- 2500 gal. tank (Quality Commercial)<br />We have 3 tankers within our mutual aid plan which can be on scene in less than 20 minutes. Plus, our water supplies are spread out enough where a tanker/pumper shuttle won't be a long route.

    [ 01-06-2002: Message edited by: EFDems841 ]</p>
    HELL YEAH!!!
    The comments made by me are just that. Not of the Fire dept or Ambulance squad I am on.

  5. #5
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    Post

    For ISO requirments if you want to get a rural rating that is favorable you need to have 3 tenders (none have to be your own but would have to be on auto aid)

    1500 gallons is good but I recommend 2500 gallons or more. Depending on your terrain I recommend 4x4 and wetside tenders such as what master body makes and US Tanker.

    <a href="http://www.masterbody.com" target="_blank">www.masterbody.com</a>

  6. #6
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    Post

    We have a 3000 gal tanker, one engine carries 1500 gal and other engine carries 1000 gal.. Automatic mutual aid company has 2000 gal tanker and we'll call in more if situation warrents. We have no hydrants for any practical purpose, so we've gotten pretty good at it over the years.

  7. #7
    wegmo
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    Post

    Cover 76 Sq.Miles and have the following:

    (1) Crossmount Pumper w/ 900 Gal. Water<br />(1) Midship Pumper w/1000 Gal. Water<br />(1) Tanker w/2000 Gal. Water and Portable Pump<br />(1) Tanker w/2200 Gal. Water and Portable Pump<br />(1) Brush Unit w/200 Gal. Water

    We can run as far as 5 miles to the closest hydrant so we also rely on Mutual Aide. Within 7-9 miles we have access to (2) 4500 gallon tankers and at least (4) more with 2000 gallons each and (4) with 1500 each, maybe more, dependant on which side of the Fire District we have a fire.

    We have not attempted to increase our ISO for Rural as the ISO rep, claimed it was probably an impossibility to improve beyond a 9 in those areas. I have read the new ISO requirements and we are doing some trial runs to see if we can meet the requirements.

    Last tanker we bought was on a GMC with Automatic transmission, so we do not have the training issue of standard transmissions with some of the new guys.

    Uehling, NE

  8. #8
    wegmo
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    Post

    My understanding of the reason we can not increase our rating is because of a couple of factors:

    1) We are all Volunteer and the mutual aide is volunteer and there is no guarantee when mutual aide will arrive for additional tanker support.

    2) We would have a hard time getting a letter signed by someone in the county stating all roads are passible 24 hours a day. Some roads with snow fall and rain are not driveable. We have had departments in our area get as far as the 1/2 mile lane to a farm place and get stuck and can do nothing but watch it burn. We have NO 4x4 pumpers.

    3) We only have four rural hydrants, one of which is non-operational in the winter months. And no access to lakes, etc.

    There is only one person that rates ISO in the State of Nebraska, or at least this is what he told us. He also said that NO department in Nebraska has ever met the requirements for rural water. We get re-rated about every 15 years. We just got rated rated three years ago and they increased our rating in town from an 8 to a 7.

    Like I said, we are researching this info and trying to make sense of the Rural Rating. Thanks for your input. Sounds like you have an extremely large area to cover. Any info you have that could help me out would be appreciated. Thanks.

    [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: wegmo ]</p>

  9. #9
    wegmo
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    To The7tuwer:

    Where do I need to start? I am very, very interested in taking on the ISO for a better rural rating.

    Jeff Wegner, Fire Chief<br />Uehling VFD

  10. #10
    wegmo
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    Post

    I already have a map of the entire district showing our (1) station, mile roads, each farm place, as well as rural hydrant locations.

    ISO office has this on record. Or at least I submitted with the last paperwork before our ISO inspection. They also have the flow tests on each of the rural hydrants, as well as each village hydrant.

    Next?

  11. #11
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    WEGMO,<br /> Let this guy help you! We cover 285 sq.miles with six stations and we have a district wide class 4. Only about 5% of our district has hydrants. We could not have done it without his help.<br />Buck

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    Thumbs up



    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: 640SATFD ]</p>
    GB

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    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: 640SATFD ]</p>
    GB

  14. #14
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    7TUWER,

    Your info on ISO is very interesting and leads me to believe that you are well versed in this. I attempted to contact you at 7tower@aol.com but seemed to have no success. Is there another way that I can contact you for info or web sites that provide ISO rating requirements information and calculations.

    Thanks,<br />Garthb@us.ibm.com
    GB

  15. #15
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    we have 6 3000 gallon tankers and 285 sq miles to cover with them. along with 6 eng companies with 750 gallons. only about 2% of our district is hydranted but we have several ponds and lakes, most of course are 100-300 feet from any typ of road so along with 5" hose and a divice called a turbodraft {www.turbodraft.net}we can access them with no problum. as a matter of fact is it so easy we achived a iso class 4 district wide. now of course we couldnt do it with out outside help so we consulted larry stephens {www.isoslayer.com} if you need water supply solutions he would be a good one to talk to.

    besides a tanker rig with 10,000 - 20,000 gallons of water is great but what if you have two working house fires at the same time wich one would you send it to?

    rember, stop, look and listen befor you go in.

  16. #16
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    Magnolia runs this pair of rigs out of each station. It takes one firefighter 3.5 minutes to drop 2500 feet of 5 inch hose and supply a master stream alone. At 4000 feet over 1100 gpm is doable per rig.
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  17. #17
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    Turbo Drafts like those utilized by Magnolia allow this pumper to lift water 40 feet vertically and flow about 1800 gpm using soft hose. The days of reliance on hard suction should be over. The Turbo Draft allows each fire truck to carry its own porable dry hydrant(no need to have them scattered all over the community) that does not require back flushing, maintenance, isn't vandalized when you get there, and often times flows more and is up and running quickler. In just 4 minutes a turbo draft can be lift water to a pumper 400 feet away.

    Using cool techniques most of which ISO had never seen before they dropped froma Class 9 and 10 district to a Class 4 everywhere in one step.
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  18. #18
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    This department deployed two turbo drafts in 120 seconds and flowed over 2000 gpm for their ISO rating. The lines are 400 feet in length. Impossible with drafting, common practice with users of soft hose lift techniques.
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  19. #19
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    I would have to agree with you on the turbo draft. Our dept. has one, unfortunetly we have no room for it on current rigs. we have spec it in to our new unit equipment.

  20. #20
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    Magnolia has proven with 12 Turbo Drafts that a forward lay can be used in rural water. Normally a pumper is needed at a draft site, pond, dry hydrant or drop tank to relay the water to the attack pumper. As you can see here the engine supplies itself in a forward lay through several hundred feet of supply hose from a lake. Certainly quicker and more efficient than any relay. If more water is needed a seond or third TD can be laid to the water source.
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  21. #21
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    Vertical lifts impossible with hard suction hose are everyday with a water siphon. It will blow the hydraulics instructor away when you tell him you can lift water 48 feet vertically using soft hose.

    http://www.turbodraft.net/
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    Every Magnolia rig can draft in less than 30 seconds with one firefighter. With some operators 15. What is more they don't need to use the primer, nor will they lose prime if trying to get a draft while attack lines are in operation off tank water.
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  23. #23
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    A pair of TD's
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    Here is a TD close up. 2 1/2 inch goes in and the 5 inch comes out. No moving parts. 200 gpm in brings 800 out.

    So how much water did Magnolia have to move to get a Class 4 in their rural area? ISO only certified flows to 4000 gpm 5 miles from a water source. They actually outscored 8 of the 10 largest fire departments in Texas (three of the largest in the US) on water movement even though the big cities all had fire hydrants.
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    Last edited by fcvfd; 02-01-2002 at 12:36 AM.

  25. #25
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    Bump interesting thread

    Any competitors to turbodraft (eductor) available? I accept they work very well. However $2900 is a LOT of cash for a box with no moving parts, tech that dates back for decades, and is not even self propelled.

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