1. #1
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    Post EHL, sidestacker, etc

    I've been noticing that more and more of these "ingenious" ideas have appeared for quints and aerials, but i've noticed some things about them.

    a) Wonder why e-one never shows the right side of a sidestacker quint ?

    Does that mean that it prevents compartments on that side to be installed ? You might carry alot of hose, but you loose compartment space.

    b) Smeal's EHL. <br />Well if i quote there website :

    "THE SMEAL ERGONOMIC HOSE LOAD REVOLUTIONIZES AERIAL BODY DESIGN"

    Here's an interesting fact : Thibault fire trucks up in Canada, yep up here in Canada, has used the same idea since 1988-1989. And it incorperated the slide out tray, pike poles, ladders, controls, etc in the same compartment so you only have one compartment.

    <br />I'm not trying to say that their designs are no good, but it seems that they are overrated. I'm sure they work well, but it seems they aren't that ingenious and new ! Longtime aerial producers such as Seagrave and Pierce don't use any of these, they still use hose chutes. Why ?

    your input would be much appreciated

    <br />happy new year

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    [ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: mattqc ]</p>
    mattqc

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    As for the source of Smeal's EHL design, I have no clue where it came from...I'm not to fond of the concept anyway...too much weight hung off the rear of the truck. The sidestacker concept does eliminate a little highside compartment space on the officer side, but the sacrifice seems well worth it when it comes time to reload 1000ft of 5". While Pierce doesn't advertise it like E-One, they do build a side stack design. I'm looking at a CAD drawing of a 105' Pierce Quantum w/ 1000ft of 5" and approx 1,600 cu. ft. of compartment space (Pierce 2002 Calendar, Feb if anyone has one)

  3. #3
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    Longtime aerial producers such as Seagrave and Pierce don't use any of these, they still use hoseshuts. Why ?

    Probably inertia. Just because everyone else does it, doesn't mean you have too. (Hasn't everyone's Mom told them that at some point?)

    BTW, we use a hose chute. Or rather, I should say we have a hose chute -- laying a supply line from our Ladder would be an excedingly rare event the way we operate currently. Supply hose beds like Smeal's or the various Side-Stack options are much more important when operating a Quint as a Quint, not as a Stick with Pump as we do.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    The upper compartments gave way to hose and ladder storage.

    You can still get the lower compartments. To get more compartment space, I would imagine you could:

    A) do something else with the ladders to get midway compartments.

    B) spec the hose load for only 500' to get a thicker body so you can put some compartments on the side.

    C) Spec a chute so you can get somebody hurt.

    In my most humble opinion knowing how many injuries hose chutes have may have contributed to, a manufacturer would have to be stupid to continue to offer it standard and a department crazy for specing it.

    All that liability there for the taking...
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    the7tuwer

    Also i say today that ALF offers a sidestacker. So they offer the same but only e-one advertised it.

    I guess the best design would be a mid-mount with something like sutphen.

    What intrigue me about smeal, was that they SAID that their design was revolutionnary and new. That's when i've seen it used much before they came out with their EHL.

    I know it isn't rocket science, but designining these things ( a $ 500,000 thing may i add) should require enough intelligence so that firefighters don't get injured,so that the truck isn't in the shop all the time and so that it isn't so evident that they copy one and other instead of trying to innovate.

    I guess for a quint, the mid-mount aerial ladder design(a bit like sutphen) is better for a number a reasons. The hosebed doesn't include all the stupidities of a rear-mount, the turntable is right near the pump panel, so the engineer can go easily from one to the other. And of course a mid-mount is much more stable than a rear-mount.

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    Angry

    I drive a 2000 Ferrara Inferno Quint. We have the EHL. Pretty cool but here are some problems we have experienced / noticed:

    -we have the pike poles (6) just above the EHL (they are lined up with the hose - front to rear). This takes up room & we can only get a MAX of 700' 5" in the EHL. Not a foot more. FIND ANOTHER SPOT FOR THE PIKE POLES!

    -the under side of the pike pole has an edge on it that could potentially cut/scrape the hose if you were to lay a line either too fast or if it was not packed just right.

    The EHL is a pretty useful thing to have if you have the bucks. Just research it.
    Saffell
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    the7tuwer

    I remember reading something saying that a rear mount was only really stable if you use it with the ladder aligned with the truck towards the front or the rear.

    It also said that the mid-mount position was more stable, something about the center of mass of the truck and so forth.

    Anyway, what i meant was a mid-mount aerial, not a platform. Something like ALF use to do. If lenght isn't a question, a good old mid-mount 100' quint with a conventional hosebed seems to be a good idea.

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  8. #8
    wegmo
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    Here are the facts:

    No one else has an EHL like the model we designed. First of all, none of the units you are speaking of ever came out the rear and then dropped down to a convenient height to repack hose. This is all performed with hydraulics, which was duty-cycled to represent the 20 year lifespan of an aerial. Yes, we have a patent on the EHL. Patent # 6,006,841. Refer to this web address for details:

    <a href="http://www.uspto.gov/" target="_blank">http://www.uspto.gov/</a>

    It was designed with the safety of the Firefighters in mind. To keep them off the top of the truck. If you have ever loaded hose on one of these units, it is a piece of cake compared to hose chutes. The unit is designed for 1000’ of 5” hose and it does hold the hose if loaded properly. And it will add about $10,000 to the price of a truck. But one firefighter falling from a truck can cost more than that.

    No, it does not matter where you put the hose on the fire truck, it still takes up the same amount of space, whether it is on the left, right, in torque box or above.

    Example: We also have a hosebed available on the right side which eliminates some of the high side compartments, however, the compartments on the left side are then changed from 12” deep to 22” deep, which are more usable in most cases. We also offer hose ahead of the turntable and another option for both sides of the water tank, both of which pulls the hose through chutes.

    None of the hose options are rocket science, we just offer them all. Just a matter of customer preference. And yes, the EHL does add some weight, but can be easily remedied by losing 100 gallons of water load. It IS a matter of what the CUSTOMER wants. And we also have the Midship Aerials and Platforms with the hose bed out the rear.

    Copying is part of the business…. How well we know. We were the First to have a ladder rack on pumpers that did not require the side arms, we were the First to develop Creeper Controls for aerial ladders, we were the First to have the LoadMinder on aerials, we were the First for MANY things, as were some other manufacturers. BUT, what credit do you get for being first? You don’t! We simply ALL build what the customer wants. MORE OPTIONS!

    Jeff Wegner<br />Regional Sales Director<br />Smeal Fire Apparatus Co.<br />(402) 568-2224

    [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: wegmo ]</p>

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    Thumbs up

    To wegmo:<br />We have the EHL you are talking about (rear & drops down). Works great but ........ I think we just did poor specs relating to the pike poles (our problem).<br />To everyone: if your dept has the money for a good safety product for firefighters & drivers (we know officers usually don't load hose) the EHL wegmo has is the way to go. $10k was exactly what it added to our Quint. But from a standpoint of safety it IS worth it.<br />Also, we are pretty close to the wt limit but we went with the single rear axle for our Quint but it is worth it!<br />GREAT product wegmo!
    Saffell
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  10. #10
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    wegmo

    I appreciate your input into this discussion. I never wanted to question Smeal's design. It is very functionnal and i agree it is much safer for firefighters than hose chutes.

    It's probably, like you say, because of customer needs that the slide out tray is used by many compagnies. It's just that I was a bit intrigued when I read that it was revolutionnary in your litterature, seeing it on 1989, 1992 and 1994 trucks.
    mattqc

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    berkut:

    I don't believe that Provo's 105 footers have true "sidestack"/"straight shot" hosebeds. While the hose doesn't have to travel around the turntable and it can be loaded without raising the aerial, it still has to travel through a chute. However, it is still much better than most of Pierce's (aerial) hosebeds, with fewer obstacles and a much wider chute. Probably about as good as you can get with a chute.

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    HFD_CLanger:<br />I noticed that a little while after I made the post. As you said, it is a much better design than most Pierce hosebed designs. As large as the hose chute door looked, it would probably be pretty hard to snag a coupling on a straight hose lay.<br /> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

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