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  1. #1
    FF/RESC1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question VEHICLE FIRE-CHOICE OF HOSE SIZE

    I am requesting information concerning the use of the reel/booster (red) line for a vehicle fire. Our department currently practices the art of attacking vehicle fires with the booster line. I feel that this is not a safe practice and could use any input that you may have to try and change our current practice. Thank You


  2. #2
    RomeChief
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I believe the use of a booster line has its faults. I guess it would depend how involved the vehicle is when we arrive to what i would use. My department has a high pressure booster line we use which works very effectivley. its operating range is clear up to 850psi so it will knock a vehicle fire out quick.

  3. #3
    nsfirechap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We utilize our inch and three quarter preconnects for vehicle fires, with a second line pulled for safety-been a long time since I've rode a fire truck that had a booster line. My opinion-we called them trash lines for a reason-not enough fire flow for anything other than dumpsters and overhaul.

  4. #4
    FFCode3EMT
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    According to IFSTA Essentials 4th Edition, at least 1 1/2" lines should be used on vehicle fires. Booster lines can't deliver the volume of water needed. I personally haven't used a booster line for more than dumpster fires and wash downs.

    ------------------
    **The preceding comments in no way represent the views of my department, its members, or associations that it may belong to.**

  5. #5
    J Almon
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We pull a 1 3/4" for attack and a second 1 3/4" for a backup/cover line. Booster lines cannot deliver the required flow for the volume of fire from a vehicle. Unless you have an on-board foam system, using a booster line makes delivering foam impossible.
    Normal response is one engine/tanker emergency traffic and a second one non-emergency for backup water.

  6. #6
    Davidjb
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We no longer use booster reels for anything except brush, our forestry is the only truck that has a booster reel on it. For vehicle fires we use a 1 3/4 200' preconnect or an 1 3/4 100' trash line, if we need foam we have a portable foam unit that can be quickly connected inline.

    ------------------
    David Brooks,
    Lieutenant, NRFR
    Newmarket Fire & Rescue
    Newmarket, New Hampshire
    www.NewmarketNH.com/fire
    (All opinions are my own)

  7. #7
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    Attack line: 1.75" preconnect with Navy Nozzle & 5' applicator (sometimes called a "Rockwood" nozzle)

    Backup line: 1.75" preconnect with Akron Turbojet nozzle.

    You should be able to completely knock down a fully involved passenger vehicle (car, SUV, pickup truck) using the Navy Nozzle alone with under 100 gals of water quite easily, then remove the applicator and mop up with only a little more water and without even opening the backup line. We've done it many times, both in training and in real incidents. Larger vehicles and vehicles containing atypical fire loads (flammables, etc.) may require more water or different applications (foam, etc.), of course.

  8. #8
    Captain Gonzo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    We use an 1.75" attack line with a combination nozzle. Hit it hard, hit it fast!

    ------------------
    And on the eighth day...God created Firefighters!
    Captain Gonzo

  9. #9
    Philip C
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Our 3 engines have 100' 1 1/2" trash lines preconnected on the officer's side for vehicles. If that won't reach we can use our 150' or 250' 1 3/4" crosslay, but we only use the booster reels to wash equipment or hose or for small brush. Take care and be safe.

    ------------------
    Phil Clinard
    Laurel VFD
    Prince George's Co Sta 10
    Laurel, MD
    www.laurelvfd.org

  10. #10
    GTUCK911KCDE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    The company I run with uses 1 3/4 preconnect for automobile fires. I think that if you would need to use the booster line you would do that while you are doing a final wet down and personnel are re-racking your 1 3/4 line.

    I would not recommend a booster line for a primary attack on any fire. The minimum I would recommend would be a 1 1/2 line. I hope this helps you out.

    Tuck

  11. #11
    esvfdfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We attack all vehicle fires with at 1 3/4 line that is laid in the front bumper of our engine....but we do have some experience in using a booster line on these fires. Before we purchased our current engine we would attack all vehicle fires with a booster line. the 1 3/4 makes the job much easier...

    ------------------
    Tom Pysh
    President/Lt38-1
    Ellsworth/Somerset V.F.D.
    www.geocities.com/esvfd3870

  12. #12
    FPOfficer308
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The only incidents this Department uses booster line for is possible brush and dumpster fires. As many others I have seen reply, we pull an 1 3/4" line. A car fire can turn into a major problem very quickly. I would suggest you seriously consider a change in policy.
    Have your policy makers view the video "It's Only A Car Fire." That will convince them.

  13. #13
    FFEMT45
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Our department uses 1 1/2 for car fires. Booster line for mop up only. We also roll 2 units to all car fires. One is a quick attack truck the other is 1250 gallon tanker.

  14. #14
    jte15
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    An 1 3/4" pre-connected hand line with a Turbo Jet nozzel is our weapon of choice on all car fires. A booster line does not provied adaquate water or protection. They should only be used to wash down spills and dirty equipment.

  15. #15
    fireeater650
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    i have used a booster reel to do many things from spraying out the bays of the station to fighting brush fires. We use an 100' 1 1/2" line to fight vehicle fires and it meets our needs very well. We call this line the "wreck line" b/c it is also the line we pull for MVA's, i guess it is local slang b/c most of you would call it a trash line. We also have a booster line on all our trucks and we have used it at vehicle fires but only after we have knocked the fire down to mop up and dowse hot spots so that we can start getting up the bigger line. just remember that a booster line is nothing but a garden hose on steroids and i do not consider it a true fire fighting line.

  16. #16
    mike021
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The only time i've seen a booster line is use is when i was little and my dad would take to to crap fires. there hasn't been a booster reel on a truck in my station is about 8 years now. We use 1 3/4 for everything, plus the normal big lines 2 1/2 and 3" Later!!

  17. #17
    Detroit Fire
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    This is one of the most used pieces of hose on our apparatus. From Dumpster to car fires(if no danger to structures ie. car in a drive way with dwelling on either side). Good for a quick exposure knockdown until big water arrives. Used a lot for overhaul. If the 1 1/2 has been picked up and you notice a hot spot later or a rekindle. Some of our trucks have the booster line or red line quick attack line 1 bed room fire knock it down quick and then wait for the big water. You can put out a lot of fire with tank water.

  18. #18
    amfm
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The last response from Detroit indicates that a lot of fire can be put out with a booster line. That is true. However, the line should also be pulled that will protect those that are using the line and others depending on that line for their safety.

    I was not going to respond to this because I thought that you had enough responses already that would convince you that using a booster line on a vehicle/car fire was not a healthy thing to do. But then I see a reply from Detroit and they are still using it for an initial attack line for structural fires???

    I wonder if that is part of Detroits Standard Operating Procedures?

  19. #19
    ccc530
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    None of our apparatus even have a booster. BUT...20 years ago I used them and currently I have observed many career-professionals using boosters (or "reel lines" as they referred to them on "Emergency") on car fires with no exposures and no other obvious hazards. After all, after a few minutes, the car is trash, right? There are many things we CAN do, but not all those things are expediant. The question is: Why WOULD you WANT to use a booster when you can deploy a 1-3/4 just as easy? For the few extra minutes of packing is worth it for the extra measure of safety. Remember, it is G.P.M. that extinguishes the fires and a booster simply cannot supply enough GPM for safety. The ONLY way I would even consider using a booster for an initial attack would be if I had nothing else (i.e. brush truck) and knew I had a 1-3/4 to 2-1/2 coming in on the next engine. Again, if you have a choice, it's always better to have too much than too little!

  20. #20
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    How we use our high pressure red lines are when the first arriving engine is stretching and we have a small one room fire we will take the high pressure off the 2nd engine and 3rd engine or a high pressure off the 1st truck to perform a quick knockdown, then use the charged 11/2" attack lines.Our rigs carry 1000 gallons and actually they perform very well when used correctly. We have also used them as a quick method of rescue and/or exposure protection until we get water.We have used them on car fires when both the engine and truck that were dispatched carry them. Again it can be very effective when used properly.We started this procedure because in Detroit we use a reverse lay. Our streets are usually not wide enough for forward lays because we would have little if any room for the truck or rescue squad to operate efficiently and staffing levels do not provide for someone at the hydrant.Also the city would never buy our dept. large diameter line for the forward lay.This method began in the late 70's when Detroit stopped suppling the department adequately with line and other equipment.We had to learn to improvise and adapt to help make our regular line last longer.Be reminded though, that it must be done correctly and efficiently.
    Originally posted by amfm:
    The last response from Detroit indicates that a lot of fire can be put out with a booster line. That is true. However, the line should also be pulled that will protect those that are using the line and others depending on that line for their safety.

    I was not going to respond to this because I thought that you had enough responses already that would convince you that using a booster line on a vehicle/car fire was not a healthy thing to do. But then I see a reply from Detroit and they are still using it for an initial attack line for structural fires???

    I wonder if that is part of Detroits Standard Operating Procedures?


    [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 02-11-2001).]

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