Thread: Quints vs. Manpower
04-06-2001, 11:41 PM #1engineer19Firehouse.com Guest
Quints vs. Manpower
I am interested in knowing more about the "quint concept". I know they have their place, but are some municipalities trying to replace an engine and a ladder with one. If so, aren't you coming up short on manpower at the scene?
04-06-2001, 11:53 PM #2Detroit FireFirehouse.com Guest
Thats one of the problems here in detroit with a quint you can start closing firehouses because they are no longer needed our city wants them bad but our union is fighting them
04-07-2001, 01:58 PM #3Frkoe2Firehouse.com Guest
The cit managers love them. It shortens manpower, reduces the amount of officers on the job, all $$$ savings for the bean counters. Im sure that they have thier place in some departments but I havent heard of any city guys who like to see manpower evaporate like that. Its nice when they break down too, now you have a pump AND a ladder out of service.
04-09-2001, 12:17 PM #4RJEFirehouse.com Guest
Kansas City used them to good effect, and without compromising manpower. However, this was in a "special case".
KCMO is very spread out, with lots of fairly new suburban areas, and even a significant amount of "country" (farms and such) inside the city limits.
Where they use the quints is in these suburban/semi-rural areas. The quints have 6 or 10 man cabs (depending on age) and are paired with a "squad". The squads are mini-pumpers on commercial chassis, but with short wheelbases, 1000gpm pumps and at least some "off road" capabilities.
One station, instead of having a "full size" pumper and a truck, would instead have a mini-pumper and a quint. Same number of guys. Mini-pumper runs MVAs, medical calls, brush fires and structures (but just for manpower). Quint runs on MVAs w/extrication (more space for rescue gear), brush fires (for manpower, but they never take them off the road) and structure fires.
So for a brush or structure fire, you still have 8-12 guys between the two rigs (and for structures you'll have additional stations responding as well). Either rig can be the attack "engine". The quint can do "truck work" if necessary (in case of an apartment or commercial bldg) or not, as needed. The mini-pumpers do just fine as "water supply" as long as the runs aren't too long (small hose bed!).
So, quints CAN be very beneficial in allowing flexibility in response. But, it depends on the situation throughout the department. And while they can be used as an EXCUSE to cut manpower... They shouldn't be!
04-09-2001, 08:37 PM #5SireneFirehouse.com Guest
Here on our department we run with very limited man power. The city has seemed interested in quints. Our contract now calls for minimum manning of 3 per machine, 1 Capt. 1 Eng. 1 FF. Our contract also spells out that if quints are adopted the manning on these machine will be up to negotiations.
We see these machines as a way for the city to reduce man power in an already depleted department. This will not make for a good response to a structure fire. Does the quint do engine or truck work first? How many men is the quint going to be manned by? If I know our city manager it probably would be four at most. This does not seem like a good exchange.
04-13-2001, 10:20 PM #6SmokeEater31Firehouse.com Guest
I don't understand how "money" becomes an issue when it comes to Emergencey Services. Yes, I understand that it costs a LOT to run a fire, police, or ems service. But, if the city does not want to do it, then they should just give it up to a Private contractor (i.e. Rural Metro...wonder what type(s) of responses THAT comment will get) Honestly, though. it is NOT the place for budget cuts. Anyway...that is off the topic, I have noticed that Lincoln Fire has used Quints to great extent, and it does not seem to have damaged the staffing, in fact the deparment recently expanded it's services. Quints are GREAT. Yes, but to take it and TOTALLY replace Ladder Companies? That is just shear STUPIDITY. You hit the nail on the head, if you are going to use Quints, FINE, find those firefighters that are going to be displaced another type of response assignment. I don't think that apparatus save any lives, it is the personnel and the their abilities that do it.
I'm sorry for babbling, this topic, just ******es me off. Beauracratic morons are USUALLY the ones that have NEVER been on the end of the hoseline that means their life is saved or lost. They have no business in it in my opinion.
ENOUGH from me.
Your Brother In The Service,
Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
Fremont Rural Fire Department
04-14-2001, 08:40 AM #7First-DueFirehouse.com Guest
We are in the process of getting our 1st quint. It will either be an E-ONE or Pierce. Either way it will be a 95'-100' reamount tower with 300 gallon,1500gpm pump. Before we start the bidding, we are having survey done of the Dept. which will be completed by August 31st. So we are not sure where we are going to put it,(need addition to a station that is 46 years old) MANNING! HOW? Currently we man our Ladder with maybe 2 mostly 1, and that's to just bring it to the scene. We just put on 5 more ff's so hopefully we beef up the truck manning later on.
[This message has been edited by First-Due (edited 04-14-2001).]
04-15-2001, 09:40 PM #8engineer19Firehouse.com Guest
I really appreciate everybody's input. I know this can be a touchy subject for a lot of departments. We run a quint(Sutphen 100' platform), but we run it primarily as a ladder. However, with the industry in our area, it may wind up pumping the fire, acting as a standpipe etc...this keeps an an engine available if needed elsewhere. Just a note on our staffing, outside of administration personnel, we only have paid drivers with our firefighters being volunteers.
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