1. #1
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    Default working full time in a volly dept

    I am a full-time ff who works in a volunteer dept.There are 4 of us full-timers and the rest are vollys.It is a real tough situation to be in..We are allowed to drive the trucks during the day but at night we have to pull the trcuks out and let the volleys take them untill a retone 5 mins later.Also the volunteers are making it real hard for us because they are constantly backstabbing us.We have 1 capt who said that if he heard us sign on at night w/ a fire truck he would roll over and shut his pager off.Many times I have requested a meeting with this capt and the rest of the volley to straighten out the problem and they are not interested.It bothers me because we have a job to do and that is to save lives and property.I have been told by a volley to let them do there job well what about us.I am very upset that it might affect someones property or even there life.By the way our fire chief is also a volley and he states that he has to keep his volleys happy and involved which i understand but what about the public and our commitment of being professional.I have been a full timer for over 11 years 2+ years at this current dept.By the way we keep losing some good people because of this situation.Any good ideas or comments please let me know.

    A commited ff/emt-i who wants to serve his town in the proper way.

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    Hi. Refer to a posting by 'OTTIS' in the firefighter general forum titled 'Old Boys Club-How Do I change Their Minds?' Maybe some advice there can help?

  3. #3
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    ff,
    Are you guys union? If so call your state UPFFA and explain it to them. If not then go to the press after you have exhausted all other avenues. The press will get the tax payers on your side and in turn will get city hall on your side which will demand a change for public safety. This is crazy!!! What you have is a station full of ya-hoo stem whackers who get there thrills from riding on the whoo-whoo. They also don't want you to be first on scene. They will wake up to the fact that this is your carreer and their hobby. Do you have responce times to meet? Bring that up to the whackers. Who makes these rules?
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

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    Madness! I'm a Capt. on a "volly" dept,(we have a full time chief) and would love to have some ft firefighters ready to go anytime! In our small town our members work all over the place including out of town, you never know how many will show up. These full timers could roll and have most things sorted out by the time most of the vollys show up! Sounds like you have a old boys club to deal with. These people need to examine why they are there. I feel for you. Just keep doing your job and pray noone dies waiting for their volly dept. who just rolled over and went back to sleep!
    Barry Friesen, Captain
    Altona Emergency Services
    Manitoba, Canada

  5. #5
    Jim LeBlanc
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    If you don't drive at night why are you there? Sign on anyway, doesn't sound like I'd want Capt. Pee-Pee pants at the call anyway. No wonder volunteers cry because they don't get any respect, they sound like kids fighting over the front seat of the car. Grow up or get out! Try contacting their employers to see if they would mind you coming into their workplace a couple of days a week to help out for free. The employer would then be able to keep his employees home, saving him some money, which would also give the volunteers more time to whine over driving the trucks!

  6. #6
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    I have only been at this job for about 2 years as a career member. I spent 3+ years as a volly. I enjoyed my time as a volly and did what I could to help out the town that I live in as well as the career members of this firehouse. As a career member the responsability of doing our job and doing our job well is a huge thing. If someone dies on your watch then that is something that you never forget. We are some of the most respected members of any community anywhere in the world!!!!Being mature and responsilble are two of the many key elements of being a good firefighter. It sounds to me that you have some guys there that do not posess these qualities. The public must be made aware of the immature actions of the members of your dept. These fools cannot be allowed to make a career member looked stupid but more importantly risk someones life. LIKE YOURS!!!!! If it were the old union days, you would bust his balls and send him home crying, but nowadays we have to do things right. LET THE PUBLIC KNOW!!! Call your local paper, send letters and lobby politicians. Just don't let this issue go to bed, like your "Captain" if you can call him that.

  7. #7
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    This is an outrage!!! Next time they tell you to let them do their job tell them to check their paystubs. I HATE These yard apes that destroy our proud service. That Cpt. probably betrays himself as a real hero to his family and friends, he's nothing more than a cowardly SCAB. The volunteer f/f is to ease strains on the publics tax dollars, but you're department has crossed the line. I would love to see your volly members living on the streets collecting food stamps, because it is quite obvious they don't care about you and your family.This certainly distinguishes professionalism from wannabeeism.


    PROUD PROFESSIONAL

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    Well I guess I will put my 2 cents into this fracass. I am a Volly 100% I don't need to get paid for what I love to do. It appears to me that the resentment lies in the fact that "paid" guys in that dept. feel they should drive all the time. And the vollies feel they should be able to drive as well. But if your a paid driver during the day what are you doing there at night? And for the comments of rv3951, as far as this being your pround service look around man the volly depts' in this country far outnumber the paid, and by the way how can it be your proud service when the first organized fire department was 100% volunteer. Yes in a way we are here to ease the strain on the taxpayers, it makes no sense to pay millions of dollars a year to have 3 guys on a truck responding to calls. Oh but you respond much faster, well let me tell ya something we the dept. in the next town is paid, it takes them an average of 5-7 minutes to get out the door for a call and they have only 3 guys on a truck. My station gets out the door in under 5 mins. with a crew of six. So why pay for a slower response and fewer men? Oh by the way we are true fireman we don't "HAVE" to get paid to do our job.
    Asst. Foreman J.H. Vandermark
    Vestal Fire Dept.
    USA

  9. #9
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    Firebear - There is a career department with 3 people on duty that takes 5-7 minutes to get out the door? You roll 6 people at 6 am, 10 am, 3 pm.. day in/day out.. every run?

    FF's point is that he and the other career members are treated like crap to appease some volunteers. As far as being there at night, did you ever consider each of the 4 may work a 24 hr shift? I fully sympathize with FF, unfortunately there are alot of volunteer members that want your job or would like to do your job and couldn't for some reason, so they will make it difficult. I was in that position for a year and a half and left as soon as I could get on a full career department. As far as advice, Im not sure what will work for you given those circumstances, the big thing I'd consider is by not letting you drive at night, do you delay the response? Is there a crew and you wait 5 minutes for a vol driver or if you were driving would you wait for the same crew? If thats the case, I'd make an issue out of that.

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    My advice, do a little growing up yourself!!! We also have 4 full time members and the rest vol. but we have worked it out as adults, there is no need to make the whole dept. look bad in the eyes of the community that they serve, remember that the people that will be seeing all the bad press are the people that may be employing those vol. and thinking they are doing a great service by letting them go on calls, maybe you can come to an agreement like we did 24 hour shifts don't really work with only 4ffs so cover 7am to 6pm 7 days a week both shifts on one day in the week like wednesday and respond on overtime or comp time after hours and first there can drive, I have a hard time figureing out why there has to be all this seperation in the vol. vs paid everyone in this post should do a little growing up and think before speaking, IT IS SO OLD AND TIRED, PUT IT TO BED ALREADY!!!
    P.S. I get paid to be a Firefighter/EMT so don't think that I am just one of those SCABS venting. I for one am sick of it we all do this for the same reason, or is everyone else just doing it for the money?
    Stay safe

  11. #11
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    I say a good resolution to this problem that WILL work, would be to just simply print out all the replys from your posting, and then show them to your chief. Maybe he'll wake up and realize the liability he's posing, and see what other departments think of his actions and rules. This just sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

  12. #12
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    at my station we have 3 paid guy's that work 24 hour shifts. they take care of the truck, station, and make sure the equipment is always ready to go. their main job is to get the truck to the fire/rescue. they very seldom beat a volunteer to the scene. this means that when the truck pulls up you already have a couple of fire fighters dressed and ready when the truck gets there. this insures a minimum response time and afterwards we go back to the station and get the truck back up and ready for service. this works beautifully and everyone get's along great. we actually look forward to each others company after the scene is secured.
    One foot in Hell and waiting on water !!!

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    I am the only full time paid man in our department. I have 2 part time employees. They work Monday-Friday from 8:00 am till 3:30 pm.They also respond to calls after hours. The whole concept of fire protection is timely response to the incident and extinguish the fire. I don't care who brings the apparatus just as long as it gets there as quickly as possible. My drivers are all qualified and know their jobs. I think this type of situation would not happen if you had a chief who knew his reponsibilities and who cared about his department. As chief you are responsible for the lives of the people you are sworn to protect. This is not something to take lightly. I hope you have a Board of Commissoners who would read these responses and even think about hiring a full time chief. Your department is only going to as strong as its leader. I'll get off my soap box now and good luck.

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    I am the ONLY fulltime firefighter in our city and serve as the Chief. We have as high as 8 policemen plus the auxillary. Our council, as in most cities does not put a high priority on FULLTIME firefighters, therefore we end up with the paid=per=call that get just $12 per call and $6 hr after the initial first 2 hours. As in most cases the paid-per-call guys do the best they can with making the training meetings, but you have to remember they must work at a different job to provide for their families. I can't afford to pay them for the training meeting because there is no money in the budget to do so. In the last 4 years my budget has gone from $85,000 to $100,000 and the police have gone from $400,000 to over $600,000. Open for suggestions!

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    My dept is 100% volunteer, and I understand the anguish your feeling. We have 28 active members and that is great for our area. But I have overheard guys saying that they shut off their pagers when calls come in that aren't intresting. But oh how they come out of the woodwork when we get a fully developed house fire or everyones favorite entrapment. That really disgusts me when they say that but it is vol. if you tick the guys off they can just leave, then you won't have a company at all. I love to run calls myself, heh i even responded to a cat in a tree call
    I feel if you want to be a firefighter, paid or vol. you better want ot run calls nomatter what. If you don't you should get your pager pulled, till you show some responcability.
    [FDBS]Wray

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    Dang it all and here all this time I thought that we were supposed to render aid to the masses in the quickest time possible. Boy would a lawyer ever love to get a hold of this one. Some thing doesn't sound right here, because I can't believe any Cheif in his right mind would hinder the responce time of any fire co. But then again I guess it takes all kind to make this world go in circles

  17. #17
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    Get rid of the vollies,

    We have Paid Union Firefighters In My Station they Run EMS Calls and are FF in a area Just north of us. Our wonderfull paid card holding union Firefighters,they should be arrested for impersonating a firefighter I was toll by a member of rescue 2 of FDNY
    that these guys get lost going to a calls and show up long after the volies put the fire out for them...Fact not fiction, vollies response time avg. 4 min, 14 men. Paid 15 min. 6 men as set forth by ISO...
    we will not even talk about NFPA1710...

    And don't even talk about Training... 8 yrs ago the Paid union Fire School **** caned volly school... Our dept has the excat same schooling as the paid...

    Before you start with that wowowo crap get your Facks Right.

    This Is Not A ****ing Contest, and if so you win you can **** the most, OK are you unoin suporters happy, With all the Crap going on in the world.just remember there are a lot of volly's out there,THAT RAISED MONEY FOR UNION FIREFIGHTERS in NYC and Most ON THEIR OWN TIME NOT THEIR PAID SHIFT... BUT THE IAFF DON'T CARE THAT WE SUPPORT THE BROTHER HOOD INSTEAD OF THE UNION REP. GETTING PAID TO SIT ON HIS BUT VOLLY BASHING...

    IT SOUNDS LIKE BS TO ME... In most big city FD's like NY the paid FF are also vollys in their home towns and get along just fine. I guess the union FF have something to hide or be ashamed off...

    lets get a brotherhood not bashing,,,

  18. #18
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    Well said Captain12. Lets unit in these times, not divide by BS.

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    I almost forgot
    The 3 Union ( IAFF} in good standing members will NOT RIDE ON FIRE TRUCKS..... WITH THE AMERICAN FLAG....

    END OF STORY


    PS DON'T FORGET TO PAY YOUR DUES THEY WILL NEED IT IN MIAMI

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    Captain 12 your posting is unfair. There is ample notification for anyone who cares to look to see that the three Miami firefighters have been fired and their stand has been hugely unpopular with firefighters of all types in the States and around the world. The volunteer vs paid firefighter enmity has been around for a long time. It is only ever cranked up by people who have more energy for politicking than for the more rewarding work of helping people. Surely no one who cares would see a response to people in need delayed for any reason and those who would do so or excuse such actions have nothing to offer a fraternity such as ours. Career firefighters and volunteers both have a part to play in most countries firefighting services, the two are not the same. Each have their own strengths, weaknesses advantages and difficulties and childish "We are better than you because....." name calling serves neither our own cause or that of the public we are charged to protect.
    Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch

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    I was once in a situation such as yours.(3yrs)
    My advice is to do what you think is right, get the rigs to the scene a.s.a.p., do the best job possible. If you are not breaking any rules, then F**K the capt.
    I'm a strong union supporter and a vol.& I have see poorly motivated & trained f.f.'s on both sides (So don't ***/u/me that where your paycheck come from makes you a good f.f.!).
    To everyone: "Don't accentuate someone elses weak points, just to make your sorry *****es look better"

    [ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: gfdtrk4 ]
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

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    Well, I thought that some places were bad, but this situation takes the cake. I am a Volunteer Officer in a hybrid county. That is during normal working hours 0600 to 1800 M-F we have a career staff supplied by the county using buildings and apparatus owned by the volunteer organizations. We have 4 twenty-four hour medic units, using county vehicles in a volunteer house, in addition to one station that is staffed 24 x 7 by career with volunteers that run at night to help the career folks out. From 1800 - 0600 M - F, all weekend, and any holidays we (the volunteers except those 24 hour units) are the primary response staffing. We have response times, county expectations, and the like, and even some problems with a select few in the career staff union. But for the most part career and volunteer work in harmony. Suggest that "Capt Pee Pee" and his cronies wake up and do some research and work with you instead of against you. Because the one night they rollover to go back to sleep it could be one of their own in need. That I know won't sit well with anyone. Especially the rest of the cronies. If all else fails, seek "help" via politicians. Good luck, and be strong. It can be done.
    We can't stay in hell, we are liable to put it out.

  23. #23
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    I, too, am tried of the volly vs. career stuff, but situations like this will keep the argument hot. If the city has hired you to be 24-hour ffs, they should let you do that. I can't fathom the idea of having four ffs at a station waiting for 5 minutes for more people to come before rolling. Tell Capt. Whathisface to keep rolling over, 'cause he's not needed. Roll your truck, and the if the calvary is needed, they'll come when they get there--obviously you four aren't going to try to hit a fully-involved house alone. Yes, this will take some glory away from the vollies, but that's the way the city has it set up. And yes, I am a volly (paid-on-call, actually) who recognizes that the name of the game is to get people to calls as quickly as possible, not worry about whose getting the credit. Maybe it's time to ask the city people, those who are responsible for decisions about the fire protection, to make some decisions about what they want--if they are expecting you to work 24 hours, they should expect you to do your job for 24 hours. If they want to let the vollies run the show at night, fine, but then let you go home to your family, too.

  24. #24
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    thats a odd story cause usually the problems come from full timers giving volunteers problems. Like i've been told(i'm a volunteer) Your not a fireman unless your a paid fireman. I said I do the same thing as you do but i don't live at the station and I don't get paid. He said I know but your not a fireman. . I think there's a wedge between full timers and volunteers.I get along with 90-95% full timers. there's a few out there can be horse's rear ends .We got a full timer on our waterball team that not on our f.d. But overall he's a heck of a nice guy. plus he's a volunteer dept near us and on the EMT squad too. I think whats happening with this is theres guys have a problem with full timers in general and they are taking it out on you. Theres a couple ways to take care of it
    #1 go in there ******ed off and and just go off on them.(which is a so-so approach but it will get there attention)
    #2 go in there with a more settle approach and try to talk with them(but from the way it sounds you tried this so see #1 or #3)
    #3 say heck with it go to a neighboring f.d.
    That's what i did.I live probably a mile from the northest part of my fire dept district. I went to the a fire meeting(volunteer) of my home district and i was VERY disappointed in the way they acted(I don't mind goofing off but when you got someone wanting to join act like you got 1/2 of a brain) they we're throwing pencils, burping,farting,calling each other gay and queer. The chief didn't care he had his feet propped up on desk and was leaning back in a chair. So the f.d. I'm with we have fun(like waterball and we occassionally hose each other when it's nice out and kid each other about something stupid we did lately) but when a guest is there wanting to join we act decent.what ticks me off is the f.d. That acted like monkeys gets about anything they want.(far as trucks,gear, equipment)(1/2 the time they don't need it but they know if they put in for it might as well be in the mail or on the way to the station.)

  25. #25
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    Sounds to me that there may be some history here that you and us do not know about. You have been there 2 yrs..... Is there bad blood because of some previous employees? Find out what the problem is and then work to address it. We are all here to do a job and you do not have to be paid to be professional! (Sorry IAFF guys...that is the way I feel...in fact...I have been associated with volunteer departments that are more professional than some career departments)...

    Next...How can the paid Chief be a volunteer there??? That is a clear violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

    Work it out.....!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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