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  1. #1
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    Post Statue of Famous Photo

    I am absolutely appalled that someone would even consider the need to be "politically correct" in the construction of this statue. To alter that famous photograph in any way would be an insult not only to those who lost their lives, but to those of us that remember them every time we respond to an alarm. A quote from Kevin James, a member of the Vulcan Society, says "I think the artistic expression of diversity would supersede any concern over factual correctness." I feel that is the problem with being "politically correct". There is no concern over factual correctness. I hope that the attorneys for the North Jersey Media Group, publisher of The Record of Bergen County, NJ, and holder of the copyright for this photo, take a very close look at what is happening. Instead of being "politically correct", maybe they can just be correct.

    [ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: firemedicfl ]</p>

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    So what do you think the statute should be then?
    there's nothing like tomorrow!!!

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    The problem isn't with what the statue should be, it is that they are going to change what I feel is one of the most historically significant photos of my lifetime. Why can't they make the statue of the original photo?

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    When the Marine/Iwo memorial was cast and contructed and erected at Arlington...there was no talk about Political Correctness. The guys who raised the flag are in the memeorial and we know the names. This country does not need to inflict revisionist history on its citizens for the sake of PC. The guys who raised the flag should be in the memeorial...we know their names.

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    I'm not suprised at all. I mean no disrespect to my black or hispanic brothers but this is a good example of a gov't. agency screwing up something that could have been good thing. The statue representing different races is a good idea. Maybe it should be a fictional statue not a change to an actual photo. Now somebody will want to suit somebody else etc..
    God Bless our wonderful country.

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    Let's see now, to make it totally politically correct, they need to add 3 more figures, for white, black and hispanic WOMEN. Then six more for ethnic GAY men and women. Then more for Jewish, Muslim, Buddist and other religions. Then for Republicans and Democrats. Then for rich, middle, and poor. Gadzooks, where can this ever stop? I reckon we'd better add ethnic characters to the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials too, and all the other statues around the country that mark historic events and people. No, on second thought, let's just depict the ACTUAL flagraising event with the ACTUAL figures of who did it! I'm convinced that those 3 men raised that flag for America, and that's what the statue needs to show, period! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

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    Brother Kevin James, the emphasis on "diversity" is crippling this good country and our profession as well.The TRUTH does count. History does count.<br />The world would hear your protest if an Asian,an Hispanic, and another "person of color" raised the flag and then it was "corrected" by deleting someone to insert a "pale face".It would be WRONG then too!We are all Americans. NOT hyphenated Americans.

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    most people would think that history of any kind would supersede political correctness, especially in light of an event such as 9-11. It seems to take on a "red-tapish" issue that whoever is involved in the design of this statue want to be politically correct in it's final look. What they are failing to look at, however is the historical signifigance of this photo, and what this photo and statue will mean to not only FDNY, but the entire fire-rescue-ems community ltogether. Any one involved in the profession we are has a great sense of pride in what they do. We live for our jobs each and every moment of our lives. As firefighters, EMT'S, medics, whatever the case may be, our history is very important to us. Therefore, it is my belief that this statue should be erected with the original photo as its design. After all, each of those 350+ brave souls who gave their all at WTC wouldn't want it any other way
    Charles R Shultz

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    The visual impact of Marines raising the flag on Mount Suribachi has come to symbolize the heroism, fierce combat faced and blood, sweat and tears shed by American and allied forces during the War in the Pacific. But the "official" photo of that event (the one we most often see) was actually restaged, in a more dramatic fashion, after the real event. This has not lessened the historic significance of the action on Iwo Jima one little bit.

    Just my opinion.

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    I am not a fireman but I lost a good friend that was a firemen in the attack. <br /> It really upsets me that they would even think about changing the photo of the firemen raising the flag at ground zero. Why change something that was history? That is the way it happened and that is the way it should be memoralized. I think they carry this politically correctness to far. <br />Sharry <br />upstate NY

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    I believe that the statue should be of the three orignal men that put up the flag! They were honoring those firemen and people that died. That is the true history. Why does race have to become a issue with everything?? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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    the way i feel about the statue is that we are all brothers and sisters no matter what color, race. we all work together as a team / family i dont see why anyone would want to change the statue just because of race.no matter what race you are we are all family here to do our job. we all work as one unit.and this is just my feelings

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    September 22 was my Aniversary and we had a trip to Vermont planed and it was good to get away. I took the Wife to the Vermont Teddy Bear Factory. While there I got a Firefighter bear to make as a memorial to our Brothers of the FDNY. While I looked for which one to use out of the many bears they have I found what they called the misfit bear. Each leg, arm, his body and his head are differnt colors. using all the colors of bears they meke. As I stood there looking at it I knew this was the one. To me it represented all the Brothers we lost. On the back of his coat is embroidered. <br /> FDNY <br /> "American Flag"<br /> 9-11-01<br />This was one of the things I wanted to do.<br />The difference here is, these were three of our Brothers. They weren't three white guys, or three black or hispanic guys or what ever. These were just three of our Brothers who in the middle of all that got together and did something that touched the WORLD. Even more so all of us! These three Brothers didn't even want there names known, and I know they damn well will not want there names on it or anything. It should although depict the Brothers who touched our hearts so deeply that day.

    GOD BLESS OUR FALLEN HEROES!

    Be Safe All,

    Jim

    [ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: JMP17 ]</p>
    Opinions expressed are mine and may not be those of my Dept.s

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    The statue should have been of another scene. This scene belongs to the men who actually raised the flag. Political correctness has stooped to a new low. Also politically correct - the National Organization of Women is after funds from this tragedy to support more women in firefigher and emergency relief positions. Their membership is dwindling so they are now after funds earmarked to rebuilt the city. Firefighrers have to be very strong and few women are in that kind of physical condition. Those who are can apply on their own.

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    Im still trying to figure out where this all went wrong. It was an attack on us, our way of life, on the civillian populous of a great city. Now, with that in mind, lets think about things. A picture of FDNY fire fighters is taken while raising a flag. A memorial is being constructed to give to the FDNY dept to represent those lost in the attack. So now, they decide to base it on the photograph. Why change it? Are the hands of some liberal nimwit really needed to add the idea of hey, lets make everyone be represented. Would anyone have asked a question had it been the three men in the picture? would someone have been like, "hey, why arent those men black or hispanic"? Probably not, but no, now the whole country gets to see the liberal powers that be make a huge mockery of a tragic event that has taken many lives. Is that really needed? Must we alway try to make it a pc issue? Why must we insult those that died by saying, "well, we cant have a memorial unless it represents all races". And to think that you have to go to college to get educated in that fashion....hmmmm.

    Its funny that they keep reminding us that that picture is a likeness of the Iwo Jima/Mt Suribachi picture. During the great WWII we lost many black, hispanic and even asain americans in the fighting. How come they werent represented in that memorial? Oh, thats right, liberals hadnt quite got there hands into things by that time. Hey, PC freaks, stay out, leave things alone, quit making mockeries of honorable people. Quit ruining things with your desires to make sure everyone is farely represented irregardless to insult or injury of those represented by the picture. Leave your hands out of everyday lives. By pointing attention at it you just make it worse!!!

    FF_ONG

    Stay safe out there!

    These are just my opinions.

  16. #16
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    What the hell are they thinking!!! I am appalled they ever even considered this. I am so sick of this POLITICAL CORRECTNESS crap i am ready to puke! Were they concerned with being politically correct when went into the towers? I think not. As for the comment from the leader of the black firefighter group, do you think he would be angry if the picture was actually 3 black firefighters and it was changed??? Stay safe everyone!

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    As John Wayne and LtWorcerter said, we are Americans. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American. I have seen more of this nation then most and we are American. Our bodies, our colors don't define who we are. No, its our character that does. From sea to shinning sea we are the same through and through. Geez, if they get away with this does that mean Lady Liberty will have a new friend next to her? Wouldn't that be something... I only hope we are heard some how.
    Feet Don't Fail Me Now!

  18. #18
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    Islander, you are incorrect in that the "official" photo was staged. It was not. It was though, the second raising of the flag on the mount, as the first was smaller and could not be seen. As far as those who feel their race was somehow neglected in the picture, they should petition for a more general type of monument...not totally basterdize history for their own gain.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    This subject did hit a nerve!<br />But, I shouldn't be surprised that<br />the 'city' decided what is to be or not be.<br />It was always a fact in city employment that<br />if 'it' makes no sense...that's exactly the way the City wants 'it' to be.

    It should have been apparent with whom we are dealing when we saw that the NYPD had their 'singing cop'...so why shouldn't FDNY's commissioner's son get some exposure too....(singing).

    They don't see it the way everyone does. It's there way or no way.

    Sooo...the statue design is just another example of the FDNY 'brass' doing it their way.

    I'd give a pension check (and we know what a pittance that is...sorry about that) that the outgoing commissioner made the determination on that statute.

    Anyway, for all it's worth....THAT STATUTE SHOULD REFLECT IN EVERY DETAIL THE REALITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PRESENT AND LIFTED THE AMERICAN FLAG ON THE WTC SITE.

    I am no artist...and do not appreciate any artistic crap attached to the reality of what occurred on site of WTC on 09/11/01 !

  20. #20
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    Where did F.D.N.Y. come up with this sillyness. PC is for the hippies .....PC should mean "Photographicly correct" <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
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    I am glad some fellow firefighters find this appalling that some politician wants to alter history in lieu of political correctness. Yes, I am caucasian, I do however realize that there are in fact many ethnicities represented in the fire service, but I think. . .In my own opinion, that the ideals of these three firefighters represents the bigger picture, patriotism, and in general, the attitudes of all firefighters. . .black, white, hispanic, short, fat, female (Oh, by the way, why not add a fourth firefighter. . .A female! I mean we are trying to be politically correct here!) No one suggested a change for political correctness to the Iwo Jima Monument.

    Let's not start altering history in lieu of political correctness. I am sure that the citizens of the United States are not so shallow minded that they don't see that the famous flag raising at the WTC site symbolizes the Bravery and patriotism of all Firefighters in this great country.

    I hope others feel the way I do about altering the history of our country. GOD BLESS THE HEROES OF THE FIRE SERVICE. . .GOD BLESS THE USA!

  22. #22
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    In answer to those who think the Sculpture on Iwo Jima is not a comparison............Originally there were two photos taken, one was chosen and the same photographer asked the same Marines "to do it again" to make sure he had what he wanted. That was the only staging done(period-punta-finale'-zip) One other item of concern for those partial History Buffs, one Marine was a Native American (Indian) at a time when Anglos were the breed to be...........he was not dropped from either the photo nor the Sculpture! My Wife is a Female Capt/ My friends died there.........we both agree, not gender nor race should have been considered here. The FDNY members, surviving families and any others interested are planning a bigger-better sculpture with "all" victims of the WTC.....should this farce go through.
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
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    This is one of the worst cases of politcal correctness I've ever seen. Race was not an issue for the Brothers who gave their lives. Race is not an issue now. Historcal accuracy is. If three black firefighters raised the flag, no one would even consider the thought of replacing one of them with a white one, and rightfully so.

    Bruce Ratner, the person funding the statue, states,"Questions about race or ethnicity played no part in the brave deeds firefighters performed an Sept. 11, and it does a disservice to the memory of the thousands lost on that day to raise such issues". If the statue were to be made as a true representation, race would NOT be an issue. Mr. Ratner, Frank Gribbon, and those who support this statue, are injecting race in the name of political correctness. They are the ones doing the disservice.

    If the goal is to honor those who made the supreme sacrifice, then create a memorial to do that. Represent everyone; white, black, men, women, etc. Place it next to the historically accurate statue of the flag raising.

    The photograph is an historical document. Any reproductions of it must be accurate. To do otherwise is to dishonor those who risked, and lost, their lives on that horrific day.
    FFD31

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    Well said FDNYR. I shouldn't of used the word "staged" to refer to the most famous picture of WWII.

    Don

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    Early on, I asked the New Jersey Herald for permission to use the photo taken by Thomas Franklin to raise funds for the families of the victims and was flatly denied. I can't remember exactly who has copyrights. The Herald, Thomas Franklin or even the three in the photo, but I do know that they are looking for anyone who used the likeness without permission. So why would they allow a sculpture that radically changes the images taken in the photo? This statue is not a local issue; it belongs to the world. If I am the one who owns the rights to the photo, anything done that in some way resembles the photo would be met with litigation.<br />If the powers-that-be want diversity, then build a statue that speaks to that. But if I am a firefighter, give me a sculpture of the three raising the flag, period. Right down to the last moustache. I don't care what their ethnicity is; I just want it to be them!<br />Just my opinion.
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