1. #1
    NRFR/explorer
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    Question Is your gear NFPA certified?

    I got a question for explorers/advisors-
    Is the gear your issued certified by the NFPA. Ours isn't, because we rarely come in contact with fire. What about you people?
    Joe,
    1st Resp./explorer

  2. #2
    Capez
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    You may have a bit of a problem there. Anyone operating on a fire ground should have clothing that meets current NFPA criteria. You run a severe liability risk by not utilizing proper protective equipment on the fire ground.

    ------------------
    Alex Capezza BS, FO1, EMT-I

  3. #3
    JR95
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    According to NFPA, you should be wearing full personal protective equipment (PPE) not only on the fire ground, but during all training activities. If you are climbing a ground ladder outside the firehouse to change a lightbuld, you should even be wearing PPE. In terms of liability, there would be major problems if you were operating in any type of FD situation that is hazardous, WITHOUT PPE that was not certified by the NFPA.

  4. #4
    Eng91ine
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    Exclamation

    If you get hurt on a scene the first thing the insurance company is going to ask is if you were wearing your gear and the next thing they are going to do is inspect it (or whats left of it). If its not NFPA, your company is going to be in BIG trouble.
    Even if your not doing interior firefighting its still a really good idea to have half-way decent gear in the event you do get in a jam.

  5. #5
    bkrois
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    Thumbs down

    Our gear is older full turnout gear that we got when the town bought new turnout gear. So the answer to your question would be yes, our gear is NFPA certified. Even if you rarely or don't come in contact with fire, it's always good to wear certified gear. We do a lot of training in our department, and you need stuff that lasts. Also, if you get hurt even not of the fireground, what is the the insurance company going to say. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

    Bryan

  6. #6
    JR95
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    Thumbs down

    On a side note, I visited a mutual aid company tonight and saw the condition of the gear of the juniors. I counted about 10 sets of turnout gear, 3 of those sets had your typical FF helmet, but then 3 had hard hats....then rest of the sets had not helmet at all....

  7. #7
    FFDisp2827
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    Smile

    I am and adviser for a fire cadet program in minnesota...there is a plain and very simple answer to your question and I dont think anyone will question it...

    Yes it better be NFPA and OSHA Compliant, if its not and someone gets hurt on the fire ground, get ready to lose some weight.

    We just went through the process of getting our kids stuff updated, its allot of work, but if your going to be running with the big dogs better get rid of the puppy chow!!

    Good Luck !!

  8. #8
    Capez
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    Exclamation

    In addition to that, my department is currently checking on the liability of issuing older used gear to new members or cadets. So far it doesn't look good.

    I forget which OSHA standard it is but PPE that has been used or is being replaced is supposed to be destroyed/discarded. I don't think they like the idea of hand me downs.

    If the gear was still servicable and was being replaced due to a change in size, that might be ok. However if the gear is being removed from service due to age or defect it should not be re-issued.

    ------------------
    Alex Capezza BS, FO1, EMT-I

  9. #9
    SCAFDEXP
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    In my post, we have different gear for explorers and firefighters. They are both NFPA certified. I have firefighter gear, however. This is because I am a big guy, almost 240 pounds and we dont have explorer gear in my size. The only stipulation to that is that if a new firefighter joins up and needs it, I have to give it up.

  10. #10
    westmead2
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    Our gear is the old gear issued to FF before they bought all new gear. Its still in decent shape and is all NFPA certified. Our helmets are older but I think that they are still acceptable (which is nice because they are much lighter than the newer ones). If your company is issuing improper gear to juniors, I feel sorry for them when the insurance company finds out.

    Dave "Junior" Marshall
    West Mead 2 VFD
    Meadville PA

  11. #11
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    Default ppe

    Quote Originally Posted by FFDisp2827
    I am and adviser for a fire cadet program in minnesota...there is a plain and very simple answer to your question and I dont think anyone will question it...

    Yes it better be NFPA and OSHA Compliant, if its not and someone gets hurt on the fire ground, get ready to lose some weight.

    We just went through the process of getting our kids stuff updated, its allot of work, but if your going to be running with the big dogs better get rid of the puppy chow!!

    Good Luck !!
    Can anyone help me with the rules on eye protection for turnout geat? Does it have to be attached to your helmet?

  12. #12
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    to meet NFPA standards? if thats what your looking for send me a PM with an email address and I think I have the standard on my computer.

  13. #13
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    I don't believe that it has to be attached to your helmet. I have goggles (which I hate with a passion) strapped onto my helmet, but I carry safety glasses in my coat pocket for when I need eye protection. Many people around here do this.
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    no it does NOT need to be attached ..............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    Exclamation turnout

    I am the president of a jr. company in south dakota. It is mandated by hte federal codes that all personell on the fireground must be wearing ppe at all times. jr.s are no acception!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was first on a fire and didn't have any ppe. and I was written up by the saftey officer in my dept and was chewed on by the state fire marshal. so for the saftey of all please wear your ppe. and eye wear saftey is required on helmets and you should have a pair firefighter and first responder.W

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandidge2
    and eye wear saftey is required on helmets and you should have a pair firefighter and first responder.W


    What do you mean by this???
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR95
    According to NFPA, you should be wearing full personal protective equipment (PPE) not only on the fire ground, but during all training activities. If you are climbing a ground ladder outside the firehouse to change a light bulb, you should even be wearing PPE. In terms of liability, there would be major problems if you were operating in any type of FD situation that is hazardous, WITHOUT PPE that was not certified by the NFPA.
    Please Note: I'm not trying to pick on you JR95, I just picked your post to quote.


    First of all, a few points of clarification:

    1. NFPA does not "Certify" anything. NFPA is a standard advisory board, meaning they create a suggested standard, and it is up to manufacturers to create products that "Comply" with the suggested standard. Furthermore, it is up to the consumer (in our case FD's) to "Choose" to purchase those compliant products.

    Organizations like ANSI, ASTM, and CSA perform the testing and "Certification" for products that state compliance with NFPA or other advisory groups.

    2. You are required to wear the appropriate PPE for the task at hand. To use your example, If you are changing the light bulb at the station, NFPA does not suggest a standard for that. OSHA does, and it would likely include eye wear, gloves, and maybe adequate fall protection depending on the situation. Turnout gear could actually be discouraged in that scenario, as it restricts your movement, and there is no need for thermal protection in that case.

    The appropriate PPE for swift water rescue for example is a wet/dry suit with a helmet and PFD. Turnouts are prohibited. For V-ex, or other tech rescue it might be nomex coveralls, eye wear, and gloves, with turnouts optional.

    3. Juniors or Explorers will not always need NFPA complaint gear. If you aren't allowed to fight fire, or work in the hot zone (which is the case for most sub-18yr olds; as per child labour laws), the old hand-me-down gear is most likely more than adequate. If you do fight fire, or work v-ex, etc., NFPA compliant gear is expected.


    So to sum up, PPE needs are very different for the different FD jobs, and the standard that your gear must meet can be one of many. Often, your gear must meet several different standards at the same time as well.

    I'm not trying to discourage you guys, but before you go running to the Captain or Chief crying that your gear is sub-standard, make sure you ask or know exactly what standard you are not meeting for the given situation.
    Last edited by mcaldwell; 02-06-2006 at 05:21 PM. Reason: I apparently spell at a 3rd grade level.
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  18. #18
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    We issue our Explorers hand-me-down gear as well. It is not all up to the task of actual fire and heat protection, however neither the explorers so it isn't a problem. It is all adequate for the protection they require. Nothing is ripped apart or cracked or otherwise compromised.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    ALL FIRE GEAR, regardless of who is using it, should be NFPA and OSHA compliant. If your department issues you gear that is not, they are irresponsible. Period, end of story. Just because you are a junior and most likely will not come in contact with fire means nothing. You HAVE to have it or you should not be allowed on calls. That means no gear with burn marks, a helmet that is in good condition, etc. Its as simple as that.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPFire1618
    Just because you are a junior and most likely will not come in contact with fire means nothing.
    You're sort of right from one perspective.

    It must be all or nothing. If your jr's are allowed to run fire calls, and work on the fireground, then yes they must be properly equipped.

    If your junior post however is not allowed to make emergency runs, and they train only in non-burn scenarios, there is absolutely no requirement for the gear to be NFPA certified or fully servicable as turnout gear. To equip a teenager in $2000 worth of turnout and technical gear just to play with ropes and ladders on weekends is ridiculous, and simply not financially viable for most departments.

    A FD's Explorer or jr FF post must make the decision, and stick with it.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    I agree with you, but I thought it was assumed that you didn't get gear if you aren't allowed to go to calls. My fault for misunderstanding if thats what was meant.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPFire1618
    That means no gear with burn marks, a helmet that is in good condition, etc. Its as simple as that.

    I have seen TONS of regular firefighters with burn marks on their coats and they still use them. My helmet though, is not in the best condition.
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  23. #23
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    Small burn marks (I think, though I'm not sure) are ok. But the reason that gear turns red when burned is so that you know when its no good anymore.

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    But the reason that gear turns red when burned is so that you know when its no good anymore
    Not exactly true babe, dyes are used in getting the material to be a certain color, if the gear is exposed to short term high temps the dye may leave the fabric (delamination). A way to check the integrity of the garment is to give a rip test. If your are able to tear the material with bare hands, if the fabric is brittle and flakes or there is a giant hole, can the gear. Also check the moisture barrier at the same time.
    Last edited by CaptainS; 02-07-2006 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Spelling

  25. #25
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    well what I meant is that in my department it is required to have a helmet shield and a pair of glasses (saftey glasses) I wear glasses so the are sertified saftey. but check with the leader of your post to find out what is required.



    the are my opinoins and do not reflect the views of my department or city.

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