1. #1
    CV639
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool WV Cadet/Junior/Explorers for red lights

    Hello, I am a Cadet in WV, and I was wondering if anyone agreed that maybe we should get some form of a red light. Maybe a green,or yellow light?...I know in some states they let them have a cartain color till they are 18, then they can have red and stuff. If you think that we should get them please voice your support to your fire chief and to your local area congressman/woman. I am soon to be 18 (4months), but I still want the other juniors in the area to be a able to make calls and stuff so I am trying to help them. If you agree please voice your support.

  2. #2
    Whip
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    If you want the juniors in your area to make calls, the answer is simple. Get in your car, start it, drive the speed limit, go to the station or the scene, then assist. The "red, blue, green, yellow, pink, purple light debate has carried on far too long. I am sure that other senior FF will attest, no matter what you say, that once you put that light in your car, your speed picks up, and while at least in some states, FF and Police need to take driving courses, I think experience is the key. At 16 or 17 y/o you just don't have enough driving experience to start to drive with a light or siren. How many time have you been to an MVA where you have a young kid who just made a mistake and wrecked his car? Now take a person who is the same age and put a warning device in his car and have him or her pick up speed. There is too much liability for the driver and certainly a lot of liability for the chief that issued the permit if something should happen. Use the early years to worry about gaining experiences of being a FF, then worry about the blue light thing after. I am a Lieut. in a state that allows blue lights for FF (18+). I personally do not have one. I save no time in responding to the station (at least in my area), and if you could see all of the blue light complaints that come across my desk or that of the chief. I'm not saying our members acted wrong, but public perception of FF in some areas is just not that good. And if the public believes what they saw was wrong, and the chief doesn't give them an answer in their favor, now how do they look at the FD. This is just food for thought. Keep in mind that if they are looking to serve your dept for a long time, they will still be around when it is time for them to have lights.

    ------------------
    Stay Safe.

    Whip

    [This message has been edited by Whip (edited June 06, 2000).]

  3. #3
    bob1350
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Here we go again. Our dept. does not utilize cadets or explorers because you need to be 21. Why oh why should 16-17 year old junior firefighters be allowed to respond code 3 to calls? I'm not sure how the cadet system works, but what will you be allowed to do once you get on scene? I am a volunteer division chief and our volunteers are allowed to respond code 3 in their POV's to calls. I will support that until the day I retire, but for juniors/cadets/explorers, I believe Whip said it all (except I believe you do save time getting to calls going code 3. The paid chiefs here can dole out all the misleading info they want. Their BRT's can go code 2, turn on their opticoms and say "see, it didn't take us any longer to get here" - just a rant)

  4. #4
    FF.FOREVER
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    You opened up another can of worms with this one. Haven't you read the forum about JR.ff/explorers using blue lights. Sounds like a pretty dumb question to ask from my point of view. I understand that you want to respond to the scene just like the other firefighters, but you've got to understand our way of thinking. I belive when you turn 18 you can have all the lights you want, but until then just sit back and relax.

  5. #5
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Agreed....Check out this formula
    Jr. Firefighter + Vehicle Warning Device = Potential for Accident/Law-Suit or Worse...There are some Senior Firefighters out there who need to take some driving lessons when responding to calls with the "Blue-Light" Iv'e seen a few These are guys 18 to 50 years old...So think a 16 or 17 y/o has no where close to the level of knowledge and skill it takes to respond safely especially with a warning light in the vehicle...There is no need what so ever for Jr. Cadet/Explorer Firefighters to have lights. Get through training first-- get your feet wet or "Cherry Popped" on the fireground and get good with what you joined for in the first place...Fire Supression. And then worry about the "Light"

  6. #6
    CV639
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    OK, I understand everyone's point. ( I think) but what I am saying is, if you make them take a driving course, and make them prove they are responsible enough then why not do it?...Its not like 4 months in my case is going to make a big difference. I have a good driving record, no accidents, no tickets, or anything. And if they also have a good record, then what does it hurt to give them a chance?..Ans thats all I am saying....

  7. #7
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    CV639...I understand your point...But seriously is there a need for you or any other cadet/Jr./ Explorer to use lights on thier POV ? I have to say no and here is why...Pager goes off--blood gets pumping--you drive a bit faster then usual {Admitt it I do it from time to time} You have this flashing light on your vehicle and the in- experiance of handling a vehicle in an emergency responding situation--And out of No Where comes the guy who didn't see your light and BAMM!! Vehicle Accident---Who is responsible for this ? you are...Who is at fault ?...You Are Who Gets Sued ?...Your Parents do if you are under 18--And in the end your car is damaged you'll have points on your D.L. not to mention the ball busting from the other members of your company...Was it really that important for you to get to the station that quickly in the first place ?---You are a Jr. Firefighter meaning not quite ready for the Big Leagues yet...Lights are the last thing you guys need to worry about...Training and education in the fire service is paramount although this may seem boring to you it is the key to becoming one hell of a firefighter...Yeah lights on cars are neat and all but they come with a large responsibility that some adults can't handle let alone Jr. Responders...Whip said it in the first reply to this post Get in your car
    drive the speed limit to the station or the scene and assist as you should...We would rather keep you guys then lose you to a stupid traffic accident caused by an anxious youngster who thought having a flashing light on his car was more important than knowing what makes a fire behave or how to properly extinguish or vent it....

  8. #8
    Nick SBFD 6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    RELAX, If you are a Junior than you have many years ahead of you to get to calls. So what if you miss some of them, do your training, learn as much as you can and go on all the runs you can but don't worry about getting there fast, as a Jr. I remember having the same urge, but it doesn't do any good to whine and complain about it so just do what you can and wait untill you're 18 or 21 or whatever.

  9. #9
    SAFD10
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I was wondering if you older guys out there think there are any "special" cases out there where a kid has been driving since he was 12 lives out in a rural part of the state and can drive much much better than most of the older people in the area. If this is the case do you think a special case permit could be issued?

  10. #10
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Juniors are out there to learn. They are not generally allowed to perform many of the tasks that senior FFs can, but they are often allowed on the fireground to help out in lmited ways and learn, learn, learn.

    I'm all for allowing juniors to ride, as long as they yield key positions to seniors when appropriate, but when you get right down to it, they just aren't essential personnel on the fireground. In addition, they can't possibly have enough experience behind the wheel or the proper EVOC to operate safely at emergency speed. Therefore, there's no reason for them to be running warning devices on their POVs.

    Period.

  11. #11
    EMS_Rookie
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Not to be a jerk.. but I'm beginning to think they should just rename this forum "The Juniors with Lights Debate" ..

    I'm not a junior but I only run my hazard lights to a scene, unless I'm at my friends house and we use his dashlight, but even then I obey the speed limit.

    The way I see it there's really no point in driving like a psycho because you have a redlight. Our trucks have plenty of red lights, and white lights, and they all flash and alternate and do just about everything else and they have sirens that make tons of noise they give us right of way but if no one gets out of the way for them they're sure not going to get out of the way or stop for my 91 lumina with a dashlight.

    As much as I'd like to have a dashlight, I probably won't get one for a while and then only to have something besides hazard lights when I'm parked at a scene. (Preferably as a "Hey!! It's over here!!" warning device for the other responding firefighters/EMTs if I'm first on the scene)

    [This message has been edited by EMS_Rookie (edited June 08, 2000).]

  12. #12
    CV639
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Brian, I understand your point also, but I do see a need for some of the juniors to have it cause they live far away from their station and may have to battle some traffic to get there....Anyway I didnt mean to make it another "Juniors with blue lights" debate...I was just looking for support for a program I thought might work....WEll thats my 4 cents...See ya on the big one

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