When I was a junior last year, I broke alot of child labor laws. I got involved in the political area of the fire service. I knew then what I was doing was wrong, but no one else was well informed of the laws. Now that I am a senior member, is it alright if I allow the juniors to do the things I did? DOn't get me wrong, I had all of my training, which took a little bending of the laws in itself, but I was well trained and I knew what I was doing, in a sense.
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Thread: Child Labor Laws
12-02-2000, 01:42 AM #1Engineer64Firehouse.com Guest
Child Labor Laws
12-02-2000, 03:30 AM #2RDWFIREFirehouse.com Guest
Engineer64...at the risk of being the "devil's advocate"...did you consider the liability to your department, and community as a whole that you created by knowingly breaking the law? How would you expect anyone to trust you to be honest when you make the statement "I broke the law". I really hope you are trying to start a discussion, and your statements were exaggerations. If not....you will get no respect from me. I'm sorry if this post sounds harsh, but I've been at this job a LONG time, and if I can't trust my brother or sister firefighter to be honest...I simply don't want him or her around!
Just my opinion.
Be safe. The dragon lurks!!!
12-02-2000, 09:32 AM #3Engine58Firehouse.com Guest
Yea..In a way I gotta agree RDWFire because you cant always break the rules like that....bend them slightly YES but totally break them NO!...Im not saying I'm perfect and followed every rule they throw out at you, but I didnt bend any MAJOR ones..the only rule i really ever broke was staying past the 10-11pm curfew a half hour over my time limit..and the only reason this was, was because I had no choice and had no transportation to get back home right away and had to wait...and I talked this out with my advisors and they said ok...but if your gonna purposely break rules like that..and god forbid somethin happens...your Up Sh**s Creek without a paddle....and theres no turning back....Not only would you get in trouble..but the town would get in trouble...Then the town would go after you when the state comes after them for answers... what you did was really take advantage of your priviliges as a Junior/Explorer/Cadet...I'm not trying to bash you im just stating my opinion from your post and what you've written....
South Amboy, New Jersey
EMS Cadet in NJ
"EMTS DON'T DIE THEY JUST STABILIZE"
12-02-2000, 10:32 PM #4Engineer64Firehouse.com Guest
No exxagerations were made. What is a company to do? You have a seventeen year old who knows his stuff and has proved it and you show up with only two other guys. They don't care how old you are. You can be a thirty year old person and hasn't had an ounce of training and it wouldn't matter. It takes training and education not age. I didn't start getting into major law bashing until age 16 but stupid things like the curfew were a joke. I came from a hard home and I stayed the night at the firehouse 90% of the time. If we had a call, I took it. I was the "officer" on half of them because it would be just myself and the driver. When you had no one to turn to, I was there. I had my training and I knew my stuff. Besides that most guys in our company aren't physically fit enough to even be qualified as a firefighter. They're only good for running the pump or driving. Child labor laws are such a joke sometimes. Correction, most times.
12-03-2000, 04:35 AM #5RDWFIREFirehouse.com Guest
Sorry you feel that way about the very laws that were made to protect you. No, I am not perfect, none of us here are, but there is one big difference between me and you. I have 24 years of experience (and I can still crawl through a building with the youngest of them) to back my thoughts up with. Your energy and dedication are to be praised, but your callous disreguard for the law would not be tolerated in any department that I know of. That department was there before you got there, and will be there long after you leave. Lose the "this department will not function without me" attitude. What would your fellow firefighters do if they knew that you were bashing them on a national forum?
Be safe. The dragon lurks!!!
12-03-2000, 10:20 PM #6Turk IIFirehouse.com Guest
It seems like this all depends on what your department's situation is. We all know that when Joe's Construction Company sets off the fire alarm at the same home for the fifth time today a volunteer department isn't going to have ten firefighters respond each with ten years experience. So how hard is it to confirm that Joe's Construction set off a detector by sanding a floor, reset an alarm, and fill out a report? Do we magically gain some sort of knowledge on our eighteenth birthday? I think I must have missed out on this magical gift on my 18th...
12-03-2000, 11:37 PM #7RescueJayFirehouse.com Guest
Age doesnt equal maturity or knowledge. Knowledge is aquired through learning and practicing not just by being 40 years in the fireservice. There are alot of things that need to be delt with when it comes to child labor laws or age restriction in general. For example I am 15 and wanted to join the first aid squad. I couldnt because of my age however in 3 months i can join. Is three months older a real big difference? If i can pass the state test for EMT why souldnt i be able to use it because of my age. Why do i need to be 18 to take Fire 1 if i can pass all of the tests both written and practical? I dont think enough young people get the credit they deserve when it comes to maturity. Who is to say we arent "old" enough to do something. If my house was on fire i dont care whether a 40 y/o ff puts it out or a 15 y/o ff puts it out as long as the job gets done efficiently and quickly.
Just my two cents.
12-04-2000, 05:10 PM #8SCAFDEXPFirehouse.com Guest
The only problem with letting a 15 year old put out your burning house is the fact that, by law, the 15 year old's parents are still responsible for him until he turns 18. So, if while putting out your burning house, this 15 year old is, God forbid, injured or killed, his parents are going to sue the crap out of the Department. There are two Explorers on my post, ages 16 and 17 who know more about firefighting than many of our senior firefighters. They also make more runs per year than ANY firefighter on the department. However, just because they are more knowledgeable and have been on more calls, we are still not going to allow them to walk into a burning building to put a fire out. Our explorers can do anything a firefighter can do, with the exception of doing an interior attack, driving apparatus, responding to Mutual-Aid to another municipality, or HazMat. They can run the pump, do ventilation, run the base radio, do an exterior defensive attack, and numerous other things. Most parents care about their kids, and that's why laws like these are in place, so that a young person is not running off sheer ignorance of the situation they would be putting themselves into by entering a burning building. I'm a young person also, and I cannot tell you I have not wanted to go in and fight fire, but just have patience. If this job is what you truly want to do, and you have the dedication, your time will come. And I am not even going to touch the situation of an explorer running as a Dept. Officer. What a mess!
Swartz Creek Area Fire Dept.
"FireFighters Walk Where The Devil Dances."
01-10-2001, 11:11 PM #9Engineer64Firehouse.com Guest
Running the pump? That's a violation of Child Labor Laws as well. Please don't post unless you have a complete understanding of the child labor laws. Thank you for contradicting yourself. Also, juniors are not allowed to be a roof of any type of structure. =]
[This message has been edited by Engineer64 (edited 01-10-2001).]
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