1. #76
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Ha... Hooray for new posters.

  2. #77
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    81

    Post

    I would agree with the rest by saying that Jr/FF and Explo should stay in school for a proper education, but if it was a 3rd to 4th alarm and the man power was needed I would give it some thought
    +Thats what I would think+

  3. #78
    Forum Member
    ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juniorchief248 View Post
    I would agree with the rest by saying that Jr/FF and Explo should stay in school for a proper education, but if it was a 3rd to 4th alarm and the man power was needed I would give it some thought
    +Thats what I would think+
    So basically you go against what you say within your own post.

    Your dept should not rely on you guys for man power. If you can't get enough people to fight the fire, thats what mutual aid is for. Save it for after school.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  4. #79
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juniorchief248 View Post
    I would agree with the rest by saying that Jr/FF and Explo should stay in school for a proper education, but if it was a 3rd to 4th alarm and the man power was needed I would give it some thought
    +Thats what I would think+
    A ressurected 6 year old thread.. and still people haven't learned a damn thing!

    Children have no place on the fireground... period, end of discussion.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #80
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    So basically you go against what you say within your own post.

    Your dept should not rely on you guys for man power. If you can't get enough people to fight the fire, thats what mutual aid is for. Save it for after school.
    How did you know what I was thinking????

    Oh yeah..........


    QUACK QUACK!
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  6. #81
    Forum Member
    ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    How did you know what I was thinking????

    Oh yeah..........


    QUACK QUACK!
    Thats what bash brothers do my friend!

    QUACK! QUACK!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  7. #82
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juniorchief248 View Post
    I would agree with the rest by saying that Jr/FF and Explo should stay in school for a proper education, but if it was a 3rd to 4th alarm and the man power was needed I would give it some thought
    +Thats what I would think+
    Okay chiefy. I'm glad we have your thoughts. Maybe you should get back to second period algebra.

  8. #83
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    438

    Default Reasons to stay in school

    I won’t even get into the age issue as a reason for keeping juniors off the trucks and fire ground and in school. I was half way through the first page of this before I noticed how old the thread was but the first thing that jumped out to me was the spelling and grammar mistakes all the “students” that wanted to leave school made. That alone should be proof to all that they need to be in school.

  9. #84
    Forum Member
    t0asty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    297

    Default

    If I recall you need to be out of high school first before you can become a full fledged firefighter. So logically. I believe, you should stay in school even if it is a big fancy fire or hell is taking over. (though I think if hell was taking over school would be canceled so if your post allowed it you could possibly ride along).
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

  10. #85
    Forum Member
    st42stephenAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NoVA / NJ
    Posts
    747

    Default

    If I recall you need to be out of high school first before you can become a full fledged firefighter.
    not around here. my friends from last year who were seniors graduated fire school, and were certified firefighters in their senior year of high school. i don't know if that's different around the country, but that's how it is in my town at least.

  11. #86
    MembersZone Subscriber
    RoughRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oyster Bay, NY
    Posts
    798

    Default

    We don't have an explorer program but do allow seventeen year olds to apply and become members. I don't think we should but we do. We do not allow members still attending High School to be in our building during school hours. They are not allowed to leave school for any firematic function under any circumstance. Period. They will be get a warning the first time it happens and will be thrown out the second time it happens.

    Stay in school.
    Last edited by RoughRider; 05-23-2007 at 02:58 PM.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


    IACOJ PROUD

  12. #87
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    A ressurected 6 year old thread.. and still people haven't learned a damn thing!

    Children have no place on the fireground... period, end of discussion.

    See, im not going to say anything about what i do if a call goes off in school. Becasue, it seems like its 50/50 either way, why dont we get a poll going?lol, Anyway, im glad i can get told that i cant say gonna or yall, but cursing can be used?

  13. #88
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    ****I just shake my head and chuckle****


    I know this is an old thread and everything, but really come on. A jr FF, Explorer, cadet, what have you really can't do fire suppression and are not certified to be utilized as FF. They should not be taking POV's to a scene so there is absolutely NO reason to leave school.

    In my opinion any FD out there that has to depend on a jr FF, Explorer or Cadet to get a job done is not worth their weight. If a dept has to rely on kids with mutual aid out there, then that dept is not teaching anything worth learning and is a disgrace to the rest of the fire service.

  14. #89
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jrscvfs View Post
    Anyway, im glad i can get told that i cant say gonna or yall, but cursing can be used?
    No one is preventing you from talking like that. However, if you use proper english grammar you will gain respect, something that D/C Gonzo does not need to earn. Also, when you use it in the right context, not bashing someone or cursing just to curse, it is more acceptable.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  15. #90
    Forum Member
    st42stephenAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NoVA / NJ
    Posts
    747

    Default

    it's cool, but in the same time awkward. i mean, you're sitting in class and then you get up to leave, and people just stare at you, and then the pager starts making noises (i'm up when it starts vibrating). it's also very annoying when they make an announcement, and you're halfway across the room, and you have to turn around and walk back to your desk.

  16. #91
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Mistake On The Lake
    Posts
    470

    Default

    You know what's probably even more annoying, you interrupting the class, then the pager further interrupting the class, and finally an announcement coming over the PA to further interrupt the class, so you can watch a fire call from the sidelines,and in the process, disrupt everyone's learning experience.

    If that sounds mean, so be it. Fire grounds were running smoothly before there were juniors/explorers/cadets and whatnot around. I learned to change my own airpack in essentials, as well as learn how to sit down by myself to take a breather if i need it. I like the juniors we have for the most part, but I, and the rest of my deparment, can get along on scene if not a one of them shows up.

    I know in PA, it's illegal for anyone in highschool to leave during school, and be caught at any activity that working papers are required for. If you are scehduled in school, you have to stay there.

  17. #92
    Forum Member
    st42stephenAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NoVA / NJ
    Posts
    747

    Default

    My pager is always on vibrate while in school, so that doesn't interrupt anyone. And the volume is turned all the way down, so it makes minimal noise. The biggest interruption is me walking out the door. And the announcement doesn't come on until I'm in the hallway. And if I'm not in the hall by the time it comes over, my hand is over the pager making the noise as low as possible. The normal distractions in class are far worse than me getting up to leave. But I understand where you are coming from.

  18. #93
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    56

    Smile

    I would love to be able to carry my pager in school and leave if there isa desecnt call but when I got my pager cheif told me I couldn't take it to school and when it comes down to it he got the final word.

  19. #94
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,274

    Default

    Okay here we go again.

    1) CHILDREN have no place on the fireground in any capacity that requires them to respond emergency.

    2) If you buy into number one there is no need for CHILDREN to even have pagers in the first place.

    3) If you buy into number's one and two there would NEVER be a time when you would be interrupting everyone's education for your self serving need to look cool and respond to a fire call.

    4) Stay in school. It will benefit you more than going to a fire call where you are filling bottles or handing out water in rehab.

    FyredUp

  20. #95
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Mistake On The Lake
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Well, people that were never explorers or juniors become firefighters all the time. People would get into this career the way they did before there were juniors, they'd think it looked interesting, and apply. Entire generations of firefighters, were made this way, before there was ever a 14 y/o who's chief convinced him he was a "firefighter" now.

    Note the key part in your post, the fireground is running just as smoothly as before. Even if there were no ride alongs, fireground operations wouldn't take a nosedive, and houses would be burning to the foundation left and right.

    Juniors/Explorers simply are not an essential (nor should they be) component to fireground operations.

  21. #96
    Forum Member
    st42stephenAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NoVA / NJ
    Posts
    747

    Default

    yes, people would still become firefighters if there was explorers or not. but having an explorer program lets younger children get involved, so they can learn the job before they go through FF1.

    and yes, as much as it pains me to say it, exp/jrs aren't a necessity on the fire ground. however, they do compliment the fire ground operation nicely when they do what they can, and what they're told. it takes some of the menial tasks of the hands of the firefighters who are actually fighting the fire.

    and i'd say 90% of the exps/jrs out there (maybe more?!) are more than willing to do the menial tasks when asked to by an officer/firefighter. i know i always do anything/everything i can to be of help at a fire scene.

  22. #97
    Forum Member
    HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Copied from my original reply to this questions back in 2003:

    now, back to the topic at hand. when i was in high school, i sometimes took my pager with me to school. and it stayed in my car until the end of the day. the only time i put it on was if i was staying after school for some type of activity. if you can't respond to calls, then having a pager serves no purpose. and if you can respond, it still serves no purpose, for two reasons: 1) if you are not a interior structural firefighter (ie, completed firefighter I) then you are mainly a gopher (go for this, go for that). yes, a gopher is nice to have, and cadets are useful on a fire scene, but you are added help, and not required and 2) if your pager goes off, it will disruprt everyone in class. if you leave, your cheating yourself out of your own education. trust me, the department will continue to function without you for that one call.

    Let me give you some advice. I'm currently a college student. I'm also an interior structural firefighter and an EMT. let me tell you from experience (and my ex g/f who was also an EMT will agree) when you get to college, it's embarrassing to have a pager go off in class. and i don't do it intentionally, i just forget i still have it on me. and i can leave class if i chose to. but i don't, because my education is more important. and having my pager go off is disruptive to the other students in my class and the professor.

    if you want to go toe to toe with stories of immaturity, i can probably top all of you on that one too. the stories i can tell you about stuff I did are downright stupid. and looking back, I can't imagine what made me want to do it.

    I've been in your position. do yourself a favor. take the blue lights out of your cars (yes I had one too). focus on your school work, whether it be high school or college. when you turn 18 take Firefighter I, and an EMT course. trust me the EMT course is useful in the fire department, and you can often take it at 16 depending on what state you live in. listen to your officers and senior members. believe it or not, some of them know a little bit more about firefighting then you do.

    when you turn 18 and become a quaified interior firefighter, or an EMT who can make up the 2nd half of a crew, then I can see the justification for leaving school for calls (and as such carrying a pager). I don't agree with it, but I can see where you are coming from. but until you do that, leave the pager at home, and concentrate on your school work.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  23. #98
    FossilMedic

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    metro Washingon DC
    Posts
    526

    Default from my December 2004 post about Pennsylvania high schoolers

    I spent three years teaching EMT as part of a rural high school vocational fire science program in Virginia. The students were required to be a member of their local volunteer fire department.

    This document provides the SUMMARY of the Pennsylvania child labor laws: http://www.dli.state.pa.us/landi/lib.../pdf/llc-5.pdf

    Here is the section on work hours:

    During School Term: Students may not work after midnight (Sunday thru Thursday) or before 6 AM during the entire week. (Exception: Students may work the night preceding a school holiday occurring during the school year until 1 AM-the next morning.) Students may work Friday night until 1 AM-Saturday morning and on Saturday night until 1 AM-Sunday morning.

    Even as a volunteer, firefighting is considered work by most states. In Virginia, 16 and 17 year olds are prohibited from operating inside burning buildings or in environments that are "immediately dangerous to live and health" (IDLH.) The exception is during NFPA 1403 compliant live fire training when supervised by certified instructors operating under a 1-to-5 instructor to student ratio.

    Many of the prohibited Pennsylvania occupations/activities cover tasks of a Firefighter I operating at an emergency scene - both inside and outside the burning building.

    Federal regulations can override state or local regulations. Go to http://www.youthrules.dol.gov/ to see what the federal government says about youth employment.

    MY OPINION is that you should not be responding from the school or on late night calls (after 9 pm) on school nights. That includes working structure fires, bad wrecks and local catastrophies. If your goal is to be a full-time firefighter, you must get your high school diploma. A high school diploma is the MINIMUM education requirement for firefighter candidates. I do not care how thinly staffed the local VFD is.

    To be a complete buzzkill:
    • Pagers, minitors and cellphones OFF when in school.
    • NO emergency lights/sirens on private vehicles - too many teenage responders are crashing and dying when responding to a fire call. Testosterone + adrenalin + clapped out car with bald tires and bad brakes = bad outcome event. It seemed like one of my high school students was crashing while responding to an emergency every month. (Doing the math - 30 students generated 9 to 10 crashes every academic year.)
    Once you turn 18 you can do whatever you want.

    Mike

    Assistant Professor Michael J. Ward
    Department of Emergency Medicine
    The George Washington University
    http://home.gwu.edu/~mikeward/

    former Fire Science Program Head
    Northern Virginia Community College

    retired Captain II
    Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department
    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/

    in a follow-up message:

    My opinion is that your department is stealing YOUR lifetime future to meet THEIR short-term needs. At some point, you will miss enough school to make you ineligible to graduate.

    You must be in school for a minimum number of hours a year. When you miss school because of snow days, personal illness or other reasons that time is subtracted from your academic record.

    Depending on the area, the school has a handful of days to provide a cushion to handle weather closings. If they have too many snow days they are required to increase the academic day or add days at the end of the school year.

    There is a minimum hour/day academic attendance requirement established by the state and enforced by the school board.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...t=65171&page=2
    Last edited by MikeWard; 05-25-2007 at 08:18 PM.

  24. #99
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Erie, PA
    Posts
    10

    Default Leaving School

    I think leaving school isnt the answer... as much as i would love to. Although I think if you are 18 and have all your training you should beable to leave: on the following calls:
    Structure fire
    MVA's
    Water Rescues

    There is no sence of leaving school if you have no training. You must get an education.

    I am 17 and certified firefighter in PA but do not have my Emt and not 18. So i shouldnt be able to leave school.

  25. #100
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Palmerton Pa.
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I Completely agree with Fireguy04 but i also feel that if it is major that they couold use tge help then it is all up to you to make up missed school work....

    If you leave you must be passing and have a good reputation to be trusted to come back....

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register