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  1. #1
    Nate Marshall
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post The good things explorers do...

    This would include drillground and classroom participation. Working in public ed and schools with younger kids.

    Manning the stations when the crews are out, like radio work, washing and maintaining equipment.

    These things are covered under liability clauses in your departments contracts.

    While I personally would never use explorers on the fireground I do have use for them. In these above mentioned areas.

    Ive had bad experiences with some explorers and have heard from others about theirs.

    Here are a few:
    1. I conducted a firefighter 1 academy held for a local community college on saturdays, they did the classroom stuff with another instructor 2 nights a week and my crew and I did the training.

    Another department came out to help us by providing a truck and people. They showed up with a\1 firefighter and 10 explorers. One of the explorers had chief rank in his post, he was 16 17 at best, yet he was inside the tower yelling at people who had already been on real fires and completely contradicted their training by what he was telling them. Some of these students were in 20's some even in 30's many had volunteer experience and were getting firefighter 1 to better their odds at getting hired on so pretty much every student bailed at lunchtime. We had half the class drop the program. Basically it embarassed the college and created differences between several agencies the college and the training academy.

    This is where some of my displeasure at some explorers comes into play. Some explorers havent yet learned that they arent fulltime nor are full members. Ive seen it happen too many times and yes there are good explorers, the vast majority of them included. Problem is it only takes a few to screw their image over.

  2. #2
    Engine58
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    FIRST OF ALL MR. MARSHALL THERE WAS NO PURPOSE TO POSTING WHAT YOU HAVE JUST POSTED IN THIS FORUM THE ONLY REASON YOU JUST POSTED THAT IS TO GET PEOPLE ANNOYED..YES I AM ANNOYED BECAUSE FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING...YOU ARE SAYING THAT ONLY THE EXPLORERS IN YOUR AREA ACT THAT WAY...HOW BOUT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY? COME TO JERSEY...YOU SEE HOW WE WORK HERE...#1 THEY WOULD NOT BE IN A BURN TOWER...#2 THE EXPLORERS WHO ARE OFFICERS (LIKE MYSELF) WOULD NEVER BOSS AROUND SENIOR OR OLDER FIREFIGHTERS FOR THE #1 REASON IS WE ARE ONLY EXPLORERS..THE ONLY PEOPLE I TELL WHAT TO DO ARE MY FELLOW EXPLORERS AND MY ORDERS COME FROM THE FIRE CHIEF OR SENIOR FIREFIGHTER IN CHARGE ON SCENE...WE ARE OF GREAT USE ON FIRE SCENES BY FREEING UP OUTSIDE MAN POWER FROM CHANGING BOTTLES ETC...SO THEY CAN HAVE MORE MANY POWER DOING REGULAR FIREFIGHTING THINGS THAT WOULD PUT EXPLORERS IN DANGER THAT WE ARENT ALLOWED TO DO. SO JUST BECAUSE YOUR EXPLORERS IN YOUR AREA THINK THEY ARE ALL HIGH AND MIGHTY....DONT COME POSTING THESE BULLS**T POSTS ON THE FORUMS SAYING HOW YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH EXPLORERS..WE ALREADY KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE USED TO CLEAN TRUCKS,THE FIREHOUSE AND MAN THE RADIO..NO S*IT SHERLOCK!! DUDE JUST SHUT UP ALREADY NO ONE LIKES YOU....

    ------------------
    Andrew
    South Amboy, New Jersey
    Explorer Engine 6 So. Amboy Fire Dept & Cadet Morgan FAS
    "EMTS DON'T DIE THEY JUST STABILIZE"
    http://engine058.boltpages.com/southamboyfiredepartmentexplorerpost6/

  3. #3
    AFF_Rescue4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Engine58, I agree with with what your saying. Stephen King came out with 1 or 2 dumb books(I think) but do I judge all of his books poorly because I had a bad time with 1 or 2. NO. I actually take the time to read his other books and judge them AFTER I read them, NOT by the cover. Point is. Dont judge us before you know us because we hold the official title or. Junior FF, Explorer, Cadet, Auxilary FF or what ever you call them in your neck of the woods.

    Nate- A little tip. When you post, make it something that is worth a conversation. Take me for an example, Look at some of my old posts when I first sighned up, all they were about was my 91 CVP and how many lights I had, and I caught a lot of **** for a while for it but now look at me I actually post things the warrant a disscusion.

  4. #4
    Nate Marshall
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Some not all in here also think they should be having 100 million lights and sirens, driving trucks, going into fires. So this isnt just a "my area" theme. It happens. Basically this is an area that explorers who take their jobs and future seriously to clean up because it does affect your future and the perception of explorers. 3 agencies cancelled their explorer programs because of this incident. I actually went to bat for them being used in the training just not as instructors or instructors aides. I have no problem with explorers being training victims or other role players I just dont believe there is a use for them on scene and as a chief officer that is my call.

  5. #5
    Engine 101
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Oh I see hwo it is just becasue you have had a bad expirince with explorers you belive we're all like that


    If you feel there is no place for explorers to be on or at an incident then tell me how are we suppose to get any expirince? As a Chief Officer you should not be putting down explorers or telling them to shut up
    First you make everyone in the Firefighter fourm section of this site angry at you now you decide to come down here and make everyone here angry at you, Look out all fourms below this one

    [This message has been edited by Engine 101 (edited 05-09-2001).]

  6. #6
    nomad1085
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    OK, now this guy is going to far. It is time for my 2 or 3 cents. First off, I am not an explorer, I am a senior in the dept with Firefighter I. Our dept has explorers and they are a GREAT ASSET! They can, once through with training, go to all our calls. If they get certified in MRT or EMT, they can go on medical runs as well. They can participate in most of the senior company drills, as well as have their own drills. At calls they fetch equipment, set up fireground tools, change airbottles, direct traffic, and of course, are experts at clearing traffic while on the way by running the siren while the driver drives. In fact, our explorers sometimes know more about the equipment than some seniors. They are issued department pagers or plectrons if available. They must respond to the firehouse, not to the scene and take a truck. They come with us to public relations events and help with demonstrations. At our annual banquet, they even act as the servers, bringing food around and clearing the tables. They elect their own president, secretary, and treasuer. They have monthly meetings, drills, and they even have their own bank account. They have gear that is not interior rated any longer and have orange helmets instead of yellow to help distinguish them.

    Our explorers are a MAJOR asset to our department. They help us on calls and make our jobs a heck of a lot easier. They do not have blue lights and can not leave school for calls. They can not go interior or operate the hurst tools or power tools. By the time they are 18, they can join the senior dept and already have a HUGE knowlege base and makes our lives easier when it comes to probie training. If an explorer post is run correctly and has good people in it and advising it, it is a wonderful program with a huge potential to help a dept, especially a vollie dept like mine. Please do not come in here and start talking out your @ss about how all explorers should and shouldn't do this or that just because you almighty experience wasn't good.

    So, Mr. Marshall, I don't really care if the explorers where YOU live are imature and screw around. It is not the same everywhere else. And contrary to what you may believe, you are not the god of the fire service. I think I speak for just about everyone here when I say "SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT!. You have succesfully ****ed of everyone on every forum on every topic. For god sake, take a hint and knock it off! We do not need this BS here or any other board. If anyone from admin is paying attention, maybe banning this person for a little while would teach him. We could only wish it was permanent.

    Matt
    North Madison VFC

  7. #7
    engine1321
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Mr. Marshall, are you a IAFF union representative?

  8. #8
    AFF_Rescue4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Nate- Are you tota;ly stupid? Did you read a word I posted. Read it AGAIN. Cause you are a complete *******.

  9. #9
    Nate Marshall
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Engine 101,
    You ask how do you get experience.
    If your an explorer/junior your what 13-17 tops. You have your whole career to get experience on the fireground. Now is a goodtime to be in the training manuals and on the drillground, asking questions and deciding what college you want to go to. College is important, since many departments now require at least 60 credits to be hired plus emt and many paramedic.

    My advice is to use your position in the explorer program to make sure you really want the job and then what it takes to get it.

    There are a few people that can help one is Captain Bob Smith www.eatstress.com follow his advice and youll get hired. The second is your local fire science program director.


    Good luck in your career.

  10. #10
    Wally57fire
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    ok im in Nate has ******ed me off now. Im a junior member i dont know everything i need to know and as my grandfather always put it "the day you stop learning is the day you die". I have taken all the classroom portions of firefighter one and have completed a pump class, does that mean im going to run the pump at a call, no, its just something to start my understanding of pumping our trucks, and how a pump works. I am allowed to ride to calls i change bottles and i get tools and the such. The members treat me like a regular member event though im just a junior member. I clean the trucks and the firehouse, and so do the other members, Junior and Senior.

    These are my opinons and veiws not my departments.

  11. #11
    SCAFDEXP
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Nate:
    I don't know what type of qualifications this Explorer Chief had and why you were allowing him to be yelling at people during your training, but that is something you need to deal with. You need not group all Explorers in one big heap just because you have had a bad experience. I am a Captain in my post, and under no circumstances would I ever allow any of my Explorers to speak to any firefighter and/or officer with any type of disrespect. I am also certified FFII, am 18 years old, and will be joining the department as a firefighter when I graduate in June. Now for my commercial about how Explorer posts are good. Any Explorer post that is associated with the BSA (Boy Scouts) has insurance through the BSA that covers them both at the station/drillground AND on the fireground. Now mind you, I am not going to be able, nor would I want to send an Explorer inside a burning structure, but explorers CAN be utilized in both a safe and productive manner on the fireground. My Explorers who have completed the required training and their six month probationary period are issued pagers and allowed to respond to calls. They must respond to the station in a Code 1 manner, NO lights and/or siren, and may NOT go direct under any circumstances. They may NOT take the place of a firefighter on the truck, and may not respond to either HazMat or Mutual-Aid to another municipality. Once on-scene, Explorers will be directly supervised by one or more Explorer officers and also by the safety officer. Jobs explorers can perform on the fireground include filling SCBA's, getting various tools for firefighters, operating a handline(defensive only), helping with the canteen, and many other things. Explorers may also run the base radio if they do not make the truck or if there is no room on the truck. Explorers are useful, and with the right training/insurance/supervision, can be a great asset to any department.

    ------------------
    Nick Funk "Bubba"
    Explorer Captain/Training Officer
    Swartz Creek Area Fire Dept.
    Post 41

    "You go, We go."

    [This message has been edited by SCAFDEXP (edited 05-09-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by SCAFDEXP (edited 05-09-2001).]

  12. #12
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I was just looking through all the forums and found this one interesting. For all of the explorers and jr. firefighters, remember one thing here. Try your hardest not to be the type of person Nate is. If you do that and you respect your senior personnel, you'll do fine. Watch, listen and learn, thats the best advise I could give you. Theres an old saying that my professor once told me and it rings very true.

    The more we know
    the more we realize
    how little we really know.

  13. #13
    AFF_Rescue4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I think we were pretty close to becoming like him. and that is what he wanted

  14. #14
    Nate Marshall
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    First this explorer chief wasnt from my department he was from one of the larger metro departments and so wasnt under my authority. Second I didnt know this because I was at the burn building, he was in the tower with 1 of my real instructors and I didnt find out unitl after most of the class blew out.

    I dont put all explorers together. This wasnt meant to demean or degrade explorers. Just something they should be aware of so it doesnt happen in their area. As you can see it only takes one idiot to tarnish the image of a whole group. This one kid changed my opinion of explorers.

  15. #15
    AFF_Rescue4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Nate- And YOU are that idiot

  16. #16
    FiRsqDvr45
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    AFF finally posts something I agree with 100%.

    Ya know, the title of this discussion is "The Good Things Explorers Do". Why don't we turn this around right here and actually discuss all the good things Juniors, Cadets, Explorers, etc. do for their departments and communities. I can say that our post has done cemetary clean ups, hydrant shoveling in the winter and brush removal in the warmer months, helped at food drives, and done tons of work assisting the fulltime and call staff with station details, apparatus and equipment maintenance as well as covering the watch desk during calls and doing support functions on the fire ground.

    Let's hear what others have done above "normal" firefighting related stuff for their department and communities.

    ------------------
    FF/EMT Jay Ellingson
    Newington,NH FD
    &
    New England Dragway Safety Team (Sundaaayy!)
    *N.E.D. celebrates 35 years of excitement as a post-NHRA and current IHRA drag racing venue! Come on by and watch the great action at RT27 Epping, NH(Exit 8 off of Rt 101)*
    New England Dragway is the home of the IHRA North American Nationals Sept 7-9 2001
    1-877-DRAGWAY
    1-603-679-8001

  17. #17
    JR95
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Many of you may find this odd, by I am a 19 year junior currently attending college. I have been a junior since I was 17. Nate, you should reconsider the place of explors/juniors. Maybe you have had bad experiences because they were only taking after an idiot like you! Where I come from juniors are a major part of all firefighting operations. As mentioned in many posts, juniors in my department are fully qualified by my department to assist in all exterior operations...does that really make us useless?

  18. #18
    Althea Forhan
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Well, I'm having negative expirience with a guy named Nate Marshall. Does that mean I'm going to despise everyone on his department, in his family, and every grown member of the fire service in general? NO! I'm just going to despise the particular individual and he'd better hope we never meet face to face.

    Althea

  19. #19
    Nick SBFD 6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    Well Nate, you really out did yourself this time. Pretty sad a grown man (or so you say) is in the junior forum picking a fight with a bunch of high school kids (no offense) !!!!
    Get a life, have you read any recent posts? it's pretty sad when there are no less than 3 topics in the forums about how much of an ***** you are! And you're still here! By the way you got my vote for whacker of the year award in the volunteer forum.

    -Nick

  20. #20
    pfr172
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Nate, Our Explorers are extremely valuable to the fire ground ops. I havent found a single FF that would rather change an SCBA than let an explorer do it. Same with salvage and overhaul. On EMS calls we can free up the hands of paramedics by holding IV's,c-spine,carrying equip.,etc...

  21. #21
    Nozzleman 84
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Chief Marshall,
    I'm an Explorer Lieutenant here in Colorado and I am just wondering which Explorer Posts in this area were banished because of this incident. I'm also kind of curious to know what fire department you are a Chief officer with. The fire department that sponsors my post benifits greatly by supporting an explorer post just as we benifit from the training that they provide. I only ask you these questions because I would like to attempt to change your thoughts about Explorers, aspecialy the ones in "this area." I can asure you that in my post we have never had any kind of problems to make anyone see us the way that you see explorers.
    This may also sound stupid but I'm still tring to figure out if you are a Cadet,Explorer or Firefighter, I asumed you were an Explorer based off of your posts.

    Feel free to E-Mail me if you want,
    Nozzleman_84@firehousemail.com
    Thanks

    ------------------
    Real Heros Wear SCBAs Not Capes

  22. #22
    wannabe-EMT
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    So maybe Mr. Marshall says some things not all of us agree with. However, I also tend to agree with a few (not all, but some) of his points. Now, whether we agree with him or not, I think we could all give him a bit of respect. After all, as others have pointed out, he did touch on the various support duties that Explorers can perform. He also justified his reasoning for disliking explorers on the fireground, and to be totally honest, if I were in his position, I would probably feel the same way.

    To all parties involved, I do believe that if we look hard enough, deep down inside, we'll find the capacity to carry on a conversation without mud-slinging or name-calling. I am reminded of something someone once said: "I don't like you, but I will respect you." How about we treat each other with a bit of civility?

    Peace, and stay safe.

  23. #23
    LMfire
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    WOW! First off I will say Ihave disagreed with Nate in the past. BUT He has made a good point.

    "Basically this is an area that explorers who take their jobs and future seriously to clean up because it does affect your future and the perception of explorers."

    "If your an explorer/junior your what 13-17 tops. You have your whole career to get experience on the fireground. Now is a goodtime to be in the training manuals and on the drillground, asking questions and deciding what college you want to go to. College is important, since many departments now require at least 60 credits to be hired plus emt and many paramedic.
    My advice is to use your position in the explorer program to make sure you really want the job and then what it takes to get it."

    This is very true, I was an explorer for 4 years I started at one post established another and was a member of both for 3 years. I was the chief of both of them. I am curently an advisorr for the one that i established.

    I have seen both sides, a good explorer post and a bad one. If you can get a group of kids that want to learn and act so much it makes a big difference. You have to know that yes you may be trained but you don't have the experience, it is nice haveing explorers available for extra help but we can do with out, don't forget that. One screw up can and will cause a domino effect trust me it is hard to recover from them.



  24. #24
    Tito The Explorer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Originally posted by wannabe-EMT:
    So maybe Mr. Marshall says some things not all of us agree with. However, I also tend to agree with a few (not all, but some) of his points. Now, whether we agree with him or not, I think we could all give him a bit of respect. After all, as others have pointed out, he did touch on the various support duties that Explorers can perform. He also justified his reasoning for disliking explorers on the fireground, and to be totally honest, if I were in his position, I would probably feel the same way.

    To all parties involved, I do believe that if we look hard enough, deep down inside, we'll find the capacity to carry on a conversation without mud-slinging or name-calling. I am reminded of something someone once said: "I don't like you, but I will respect you." How about we treat each other with a bit of civility?

    Peace, and stay safe.
    OKwannabe, but why should we give him respect? he hasn't shown us any respect at all. he has portrayed explorers as little kids who walk around with our fingers up our noses and get in the way at a fire scene.

  25. #25
    AFF_Rescue4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The more this goes on, the more I also tend to agree with the others about showing him respect. He does have his opions, however they should be kept to a minimum. The more you guys bash him the more you look like fools. I mean at first it was justifiable, but now its nothing more than childish games. You are Beating a dead horse. If he hasent changed his views and opions by now, do you really think that yelling at him more will change that. As the old saying goes "You cant get blood from a stone".

    "Live free and Die"

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