Thread: Gay Explorers?

  1. #1
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    Default Gay Explorers?

    With all the arguments in the Fire Fighter's Forum, I was wondering what everyone in here thought about gays in the fire service, and gays as Juniors and Fire Explorers?

    [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: engine1321 ]

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    It should make no diffirence what a persons sexual preference is. When I'm fighting fire I'm not worried about that person's sexual preference. I'm more worried about the things that relate to the fire. Does the person holding rhe nozzle know what they are doing?
    It should make no diffirence whether your male or female, Black, green, blue purple, As long as you know how to do this job I have no problem

    Plus this america a free country. We simply should respect a person beliefs and let that be

    [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Engine 101 ]

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    I agree with E-101. It doesn't make a difference. If homosexuals were not allowed to become explorers, then it would be flat-out case of discrimination.
    Just my views of things.
    Stay Safe!
    j6200

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    I agree 100% with e-101 and j6200.
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

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    I think that g6200 is right if we didn't allow gays into a department the that department is opening its self to a big lawsuit, and my thoghts about people being homosexuals,are thats all fine and dandy but don't try to poke me in the ***!

    [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Engine62 ]

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    Where in the hell did this topic come from???

    I guess I don't have that much of a problem...accept for the fact that they could have AIDS and its really easy to get when running med calls....and transferring ****...i guess if they wanted to be a driver for a fire chief like in San Francisco that wouldn't be a problem... But I kinda have a problem with them being on the front line just because of liability... Oh well... Just my opinion....WHERE IN HELL DID THIS TOPIC COME FROM!!!!

    This opinion in no way affects the thoughts and opinions of my department

    [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Adam Spencer ]

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    Ok Adam, the topic came from the FF's Forum...I guess you aren't there too much. And, just FYI, cases of AIDS are growing the fastest among the heterosexual black population. But, you will notice that 47% of new AIDS cases are from homosexual contact. That is still a serious problem among gays, but if you take the population percentages and infected percentages, you will find that cases of AIDS among gays are less than those who are straight.

    But in all seriousness, how many gay EMT's, FF's, nurses, doctors aren't going to protect themselves knowing the risk they put themselves and others in. If they are infected with AIDS, nothing can be done to remove them under most circumstances. The chances of an EMT giving a patient AIDs are SEVERLY less than the EMT getting AIDS from a patient. If both people are cared for and protected in a clean and safe way, then what is the problem? Would you refuse to handle a patient because they have AIDS? ok, I know I am off topic by shooting my mouth on the AIDS thing, but give it some thought. Here is a list of stats I pulled from Avert.org, an AIDS-related site:

    "As of the end of 1999, a total of 733,374 AIDS cases in the USA had been reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    Of these,


    82% were men,
    18% were women
    and 1% were children less than 13 years of age;

    43% were in whites,
    37% in blacks,
    18% in Hispanics,
    <1% in Asians and Pacific Islanders,
    and <1% in American Indians and Alaska Natives;

    47% were in men who have sex with men (MSM),
    25% in injecting drug users,
    10% in persons infected heterosexually, and 2% in persons infected through blood or blood products.

    During the 1990s the epidemic shifted steadily toward a growing proportion of AIDS cases in blacks and Hispanics and in women, and toward a decreasing proportion in MSM, although this group remains the largest single exposure group. Blacks and Hispanics, among whom AIDS rates have been markedly higher than among whites, have been disproportionately affected since the early years of the epidemic. In absolute numbers, blacks have outnumbered whites in new AIDS diagnoses and deaths since 1996, and in the number of people living with AIDS since 1998.

    The proportion of women with AIDS has increased steadily, reaching 23% in 1999, and the proportion infected heterosexually has also increased, surpassing (in 1994) the proportion infected through injecting drug use. Midway through the 1990s, effective therapies became available, and as early as 1996 their effect on decreases in AIDS incidence and on deaths were detected through surveillance at the population level. As deaths have decreased, AIDS prevalence has steadily increased, a trend that will continue as long as the number of people with a new AIDS diagnosis exceeds the number of people dying each year."

    Here are some stats regarding homosexuality in the US, albeit taken in the 1950's by famed phycologist Alfred Kinsey.

    "Alfred Kinsey carried out research in the 1940s and 1950s into the sexual behaviour of 12,000 men and women in America. Although his work has been heavily criticised it remains a rare and relatively authoritative study of sexual behaviour in America.

    Amongst the men he found:

    37% reported some homosexual contact;
    13% reported more homosexual than heterosexual contact;
    4% reported exclusively homosexual contact.
    Amongst the women he found:

    13% reported some homosexual contact;
    4% reported more homosexual than heterosexual contact;
    1% reported exclusively homosexual contact."

    I don't see a problem with homosexuals in any way. A friend of mine whom I worked very closely with on a mentoring/education program for special needs kids was gay. He was very open about it and it didnt make me feel uncomfortable in the least. I know he wasn't hitting on me and although we dont aren't really friends anymore, because he moved, I still am fine with it. Just my two cents.
    http://www.avert.org/

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    I agree with E101, but I would not want to be fighting a fire with someone who is blue or green.

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    Ok Folks,
    Not all of the fire service takes place on the fire scene. If on a fire scene, I could care less who they are or what they are as long as they are trained. BUT, as for being around the station, I would not want to live with one for a 24hr. shift. I know that my response is not politically correct, but niether is homosexuality. God says it is wrong, laws say it is wrong, it is wrong!

    [ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: pfr172 ]

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    pfr172
    Ok, I am going into mongo mode here....

    Not all of the fire service takes place on the fire scene. If on a fire scene, I could care less who they are or what they are as long as they are trained.

    Exactly, and neither would I. If you aren't trianed, don't be on the fireground, it's that simple.

    BUT, as for being around the station, I would not want to live with one for a 24hr. shift.

    Since when are they "one". You make gays sounds like they are pencils or something. If you're Italian, I wouldn't say, "Boy, I don't want to sit next to one of them!" Are you afraid to use the word gay or homosexual?

    It would make me and the other guys very uncomfortable especially when we are talking guy talk and he says something that might make us all leave the room.

    I am so glad that you speak for all the other members of your company here. Did you know that gay people are still people, and just like I can control my thoughts, actions, and emotions, I am pretty sure gay people can too. I am not going to say, "wow, nice butt!" to another guy(I am not gay thats why!) but I wouldn't say it to women either. I'm not ignorant. Have you ever talked with a gay person and had them say something that embarrassed you? No, and I think that if you talked with 1000 gay firefighters, you would find them to be pretty ordinary Joe's. None of them show up to work in flaming pink shirts and talk about the latest sale at Express or GAP. Gay people, I think you will find, can talk about sports, and yes, even women...

    I know that my response is not politically correct, but niether is homosexuality.

    Actually, being gay, talking about homosexuality, and fighting for it and against it, are very PC movements...everyone wants to be involved in some social issue these days and homosexuality just happens to be one of them.

    God says it is wrong,

    The well respected member of these forums named College buff said it best:

    "God, you mean the God who said that if a man dies without a son, his brother should marry his widow and "do the duty of a husband's brother to her"?

    Or maybe it was the God who said slavery was ok......

    Do you believe we should follow ALL of God's word?

    Or just parts that give you an excuse to hate someone?"


    Ok, back to you now... laws say it is wrong

    Can you please quote me the state and federal laws saying that homesexuality is wrong. I am a political science major and have never come across those kind of laws while doing my research. Hawaii and a few other states even have legal same-sex marriages, death benefits, and equal protection as heterosexual marriages.

    it is wrong!

    Can you tell me why?

    [ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: daysleeper47 ]

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    mongo mode (LMFAO)!


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    lol, Mongo mode, that is funny. But on a serious note, I dun think there is anything wrong with homosexual explorers/juniors, or regular firefighters in general. As long as they can do the job (with minimal complaints just for headache sake) I'm fine with it. As long as they don't try to become "too friendly" with me, then it's cool.

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    The whole issue on gays is stupid
    there are better things to talk about
    than homosexuals . I dont hate gays
    I dont think they all have aids ethier
    I think that daysleeper 47 explained
    that well but when you start talking
    about the MAN who created you then it
    gets personal daysleeper 47 I would
    that someone who is smart as you are
    mite be able to realize that there is
    a one and only god . I not trying to
    push of religon on any body or trying
    offend any body.
    jason campbell

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    Hey probie, I never said I don't believe in God, and I am a Catholic who attends Mass every week. Now, you will also notice that this topic is a lot more interesting than most of the topics posted here, and it gives people a chance to really say how they feel about a serious issue, rather than something stupid like their favorite color of fire truck (red, by the way). I say continue the discussion!

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    Yes this is a issue for depts but
    I dont think it is that major is
    issue for explorers or juniors .
    But if a gay boy or girl joined
    my exlorer post I wouldnt care
    I would treat them like a person.
    But daysleeper 47 I think if we
    could try hard enough there would
    be something interesting to talk
    about so since you dont think
    there is why dont you start
    something and who do you think
    you are calling me "PROBIE" only
    the guys in my dept can call me
    that. But since you say
    your a beleaver why are you
    agrying with someone who is
    putting down GOD .
    Cant wate to see your reaply.

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    Duh...He called you probie cause you've posted here less than 1% of the amount he has...In this realm, you are a probie...Some punctuation and grammar might be a nice thought too. You'd do good to listen to him- he's not the fruitcake you're making him out to be...
    My opinions only.

    AGS-SGA 091101

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    Most explorers are members of the BSA....Or explorer posts are break-off's of the BSA or associated with the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) in some fashion, one of the last morally straight organizations in the country that has tried in vain to remain untouched by the ACLU and all the other bastard liberal groups in this country. The BSA has, for decades, tried in vain to instill good, decent moral values in young men (and women) I still remember my Boy Scout Oath: "On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty to god and my country, and to obey the scout law: to keep myself physically strong, mentally safe and morally straight". (Or something like that. But what I am trying to say is, that homosexuality is wrong. If it were not, then all of society would accept it with open arms. There would not be a "Dont ask, dont tell" policy within the Armed Forces. Homosexuality is wrong, and it needs to be kept out of young peoples lives. The BSA should continue to teach and instill good values to young people, and the ACLU and all those other leftist bastards need to back the hell off....Where are we safe anymore??
    "Loyalty above all else, except honor."

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    Respectfully, Army, I disagree...

    For years in our country, 'all of society' did not accept African Americans or women in many apsects of our society...What of them?
    My opinions only.

    AGS-SGA 091101

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    Ok, I am going into mongo mode here....

    Me too...

    And, just FYI, cases of AIDS are growing the fastest among the heterosexual black population.

    Why...

    That is still a serious problem among gays, but if you take the population percentages and infected percentages, you will find that cases of AIDS among gays are less than those who are straight.

    Nope, CDC says...

    745,103 cases thru June 2000

    MSM and MSM/IV drug use - 396,477 = 53%

    53% is more than 47%, your source is in error.

    Thru June 2000

    426,349 Adult/Adolescent (>13yo) HIV/AIDS cases living.

    745,103 Total cases (means 318,754 deaths)

    MSM - 348,657
    MSM & IV Drugs - 47,820
    IV Drugs - 189,242

    TOTAL - 585,719 = 79%

    Claimed hetero only contact - 78,210 = 10%

    Transfusions and such - 8,666 = 1%

    Unspecified - 67,387 = 9%

    Males - 620,189

    The proportion of women with AIDS has increased steadily, reaching 23% in 1999,

    According to the CDC thru June 2000

    Females - 124,911 = 18%

    Always go to the source, not the spin - www.cdc.gov

    God says it is wrong,

    The well respected member of these forums named College buff said it best:

    "God, you mean the God who said that if a man dies without a son, his brother should marry his widow and "do the duty of a husband's brother to her"?

    Or maybe it was the God who said slavery was ok......

    Do you believe we should follow ALL of God's word?

    Or just parts that give you an excuse to hate someone?"


    The word in Hebrew that has been translated in the Bible as slave, actually means something closer to 'paid servant' and, accordingly, they were to be paid for their service. They were not slaves in the same context that we know slaves today. And cruel or harsh treatment of slaves was a big no-no. (Leviticus 25)

    ...if a man dies without a son, his brother should marry his widow and "do the duty of a husband's brother to her"?

    The whole passage quoted (Deuteronomy 25-5 NKJ):

    If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the family; her husband's brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.

    And on thru verse 10.

    The purpose of the passage is to provide a heir. Additionally, the following conditions had to be met:

    the brothers shared the same estate; AND

    the surving brother wasn't married AND

    the brother wanted to marry the widow.

    The surviving brother had the option to or not to take her as a wife.

    Verse 7 through 10 give the redress for the widow should the brother choose not to take her as a wife.

    If anyone is inclined here's the link... http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/b...nguage=english

    Ok, back to you now... laws say it is wrong

    Can you please quote me the state and federal laws saying that homesexuality is wrong.


    Texas Sodomy Law.
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    Oh yeah, my point with all that was...

    The fact is that Adam Spencers fears (and others who feel the same way) are unfounded.

    Regardless of how it is spun by the media and activist organizations (including AVERT), HIV/AIDS is a lifestyle disease. It doesn't matter if you're blue, green, black white, brown, male, female, gay, bi or straight.

    You get it by living a lifestyle that includes gay sex and/or IV drug use or by having sex with people who are IV drug users and/or have sex with gays.

    Very rare is the case where a healthcare worker got it from an infected patient - 56 documented cases thru June 2000.
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    For years in our country, 'all of society' did not accept African Americans or women in many apsects of our society...What of them?

    Very good point, TruroFAO.
    Just my views of things.
    Stay Safe!
    j6200

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    It doesn't matter.

    Male -- Female
    Tall -- Short
    Gay -- Straight

    Can the male do the job?... Yes
    Can the Female do the job?... Yes
    Can the Tall person do the job?... Yes
    Can the Short Person do the job?... Yes
    Can the Heterosexual person do the job?...
    Yes
    Can the Homosexual person do the job?...
    Yes

    *JUST MY OPINION, DON'T LIKE IT?
    TOO BAD!!!"
    Mallory
    Firefighter
    Montgomery Co. Station 74
    "When the pager goes beep-beep, it's time to ride the woo-woo"

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    To engine1321,
    What kind of person are you to start something like this. We accept anybody who can get the job done. It's people like you who we refuse to join or kick out.

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    To 65-whatever-your-sn-is,

    Why are you getting angry at me for asking a question? I was just wondering what everybody's opinion is about this subject. I'm sorry you don't think that way.

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    I don't care what the sexual orientation is of any of my partners as long as they will watch my back and do their job. I don't even see where it matters. Everyone is family and it should not matter at all if someone is gay, straight, male, female, orange or purple. If they can do the job and are willing to deal with it they should be allowed to do it. Everyone is always saying they can not get enough volunteers and that they have to turn to paid staff. Well if you don't allow someone into the department becasue of their lifestyle then you are hurting yourself.
    Stay Safe and God Bless,

    Ashley

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