Thread: 5" Hose Loading
11-20-1999, 02:11 PM #1FIRE549Firehouse.com Guest
5" Hose Loading
How does your department load 5" hose? Any special tips on how to keep the air out?
Also, any safety tips on catching a hydrant?
I'v been told of some serious accidents with 5' hose getting unwound from the hydrant and injuring a fire fighter as the apparatus attempts to lay a supply line.
11-20-1999, 03:44 PM #2BVFDFirehouse.com Guest
We load our 5" in a flat load, haven't experienced any problems with that yet. As far as catching a hydrant, we wrap the hydrant twice and the plugman holds it in place with his foot until the apparatus is down the road about 30-50 ft. When loading the hose, try using a hose wringer right as you put the hose into the bed.
By the way...do you have a firefighter on your dept. by the name of W. Mominee? I'm pretty sure he moved your way, and thought he said he worked with Johnson City.
Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them
[This message has been edited by BVFD (edited November 20, 1999).]
11-20-1999, 09:16 PM #3morrissFirehouse.com Guest
We too pack our hose in a flat lay. We fit the couplings in at the front of the bed and ensure that they won't "flip" when laying out.
For catching the hydrant, we have a piece of prusset cord secured around approximately the last 20' of hose. There is a hydrant tool bag attached to the end of the hose with Storz and standard spanners and a hydrant wrench. The cord and loop of hose is dropped over the hydrant and the engine drives off. Coincidently, our driver is the person who drops the line to prevent anyone else from having to do it with SCBA on and for ensuring that when the engine drives off that the hydrant is ready.
11-20-1999, 11:03 PM #4EPFD-ALFirehouse.com Guest
My department has been using 5 inch since 1988 and the above two posts are excellent.
Also: Paul Shapiro, who is the Director of Fire Flow Technologies in Boulder City, Nevada has a good video and manual available on LDH water delivery and pick-up. You can reach him at: (702) 293- 5150 or Layin Line @ AOL.COM
11-22-1999, 12:10 PM #5Eng 48Firehouse.com Guest
The next time you lay your 5" out, don't uncouple it. At the uphill side, flip over the end. As you walk the water out, it will pull all the air out with it.
11-22-1999, 02:08 PM #6ChapCaptFirehouse.com Guest
Capping or flipping the uphill end works great. The other option is to roll it, it the lay is not too long. The air is a constant pain. Not bad PT when you can use your hose bed as a trampoline!!!
We lay our flat with the couplings towards the front (cab), set so they do not flip. Never had a problem laying it out. Drive at about 15 mph ensures the couplings hit the street and don't dent the heck out of the rear step.
11-22-1999, 09:23 PM #7DDFirehouse.com Guest
Angus has a video that shows LDH use, loading, laying, draining, etc. It has the standard sales pitches, but it helped us a lot. They show the end closing and downhill draining. I wonder if a large shop vac could be adapted to suck the air out of LDH?
There is a cheap way to prevent damage to your tailboard and couplings. Get a piece of used conveyor belting from an area industry. Fasten a piece to the back end of the hose bed and flip it up over the stack of LDH. Tie a strap to the end to allow pulling it off the top of the LDH. The longer the belting, the better it works. The hose and couplings will slide down the belting like on a ramp. The couplings will completely miss the tailboard and slide easily onto the pavement. Mining industries in my area give it away. I have a roll that is about 5 ft wide and 6 feet in diameter. It was a good load in the single axle dump truck that hauled it.
11-23-1999, 09:16 AM #8Firstin88Firehouse.com Guest
All the tips for your air problem are pretty good so I won't comment on that.
As for catching the hydrant we too wrap the hydrant and stand on the end so it does not unwrap. we also have a hydrant bag on the end with a Stortz coupling, spanner wrenches, and 2 hydrant wrenches. In the winter if you drop one in the snow (and that seems to happen often) you still have another one.
The biggest part of being safe is to have the apparatus operator drive slow when laying the 5" out. Most recommendations will be no more than 5 mph. I know most operators think this is too slow, but you won't be effective if you hurt your firefighter at the hydrant.
Just my 2 cents
Stay Safe and God Bless
[This message has been edited by Firstin88 (edited November 23, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Firstin88 (edited November 24, 1999).]
11-25-1999, 10:23 AM #9morrissFirehouse.com Guest
I was always taught that 5 mph was too slow for LDH. Our SOP is 10-15 mph when laying LDH. This is one of the reasons for our driver being the one who catches the hydrant. Is 5 mph O.K.? Is 10-15 too fast?
11-25-1999, 12:07 PM #10e33Firehouse.com Guest
Laying supply hose at speeds slower than 5 mph is too slow..honestly lay it at 15 or so mph, you will end up with a straighter lay and the couplings will not be bouncing off the tailboard.
11-25-1999, 12:25 PM #11Halligan84Firehouse.com Guest
We used the conveyor belt when we first got 5" in 1979, since then we found that laying at speeds between 10 and 20 mph resulted in a very straight lay and no damage to couplings or apparatus. As far as personnel injuries, no one should be anywhere near any supply hose bed at any speed. Stand clear of th hydrant and wait for the slack to get out of the line or get back in the cab while the hose is being laid. Most injuries I've seen were guys riding the back step while laying hose or trying to make the hook up while the hose pulled away from them.
12-05-1999, 11:11 PM #12Mesa FyrFirehouse.com Guest
We use the flat load for our rear 900' bed with no problems. We also have a shorty 40' section of 5" carried in a compartment next to the pump panel in a horseshoe load with the hydrant adapter ready to pull. All you have to do is pull the hydrant adapter and grab a hydrant wrench and pull toward the plug. It comes out easy and faster than if you were to have it rolled up. Of course this only works if you happen to have a hydrant near your spot. And if you pull toward the hydrant and you hear the other coupling hit the pavement and you are not at the hydrant yet, time to grab 100' off the rear bed. Of course then there could be a spotting problem, but that is another story
12-06-1999, 01:11 AM #13agffFirehouse.com Guest
Laying the couplings to the front is already covered. I have also laid the couplings in the load itself like a V pattern making sure not to flip the couplings. Both have worked and not noticed any difference. For those capping uphill side which end do you start loading?
12-29-1999, 11:58 AM #14JRESCUEFirehouse.com Guest
The best advice I can give you is to get a hydrant bag,and put all your hydrant tools in the bag. Then get an old adjustable seatbelt from a junk yard and have the ends sewed together. Make two 8 foot folds in the 5". Seatbelt the coupling inside the wraps. Then get some tubular webbing about 10 feet long,and run it through the bag handles,and the inside the seatbelted fold. Tie the ends together using a overhand knot with a tracer. Then when you need to lay A supply line you grab the bag,and pull it off. Then throw the strap over the hydrant. This way you don't have to risk injuring yourself or a fellow firefighter. When the line is layed you just unbuckle the seatbelt,and hook it up. Also by doing this the second engine can hook the hydrant up,thus putting one more firefighter at the seen instead of standing at the hydrant. This also helps keep air out of the line when it is on the truck! It's better to lay the line about 15mph it keeps the line flat,and is easier on the couplings.
Buckle-Up and Stay Safe!!
01-25-2000, 01:20 AM #15D. AndersonFirehouse.com Guest
We only have four inch LDH but the method that Eng48 mentioned works really slick for getting the air out. We reverse lay with the second in engine from the first in engine out to the hydrant so we don't hook the hydrant very often except possibly to lay in on something like a lumberyard where you know it's going to be defensive from the get go. Then we'd double wrap the hydrant like a few others have stated.
01-25-2000, 09:14 AM #16smithepsFirehouse.com Guest
I have experience with two different departments...one at school that runs tons of calls one at home that doesnt.
At school we lay our 5in in a flat load with aprox 1000ft on each rig. All couplings are located at the front (toward the cab) of the rig to ensure a perfectlly flat hose load and to prevent them from bouncing around. This will also prevent couplings from snagging other lengths of 5in and deploying them before their intended time.
At home untill just a few months ago we flat loaded our 5in with the couplings dispersed throughout the load and it made for a real mess if only laying a few hundred feet.
As for snagging the hydrant I prefer to have the crew or officer choose a hydrant man before ever leaving the station this way he can run the scenario through his mind insted of worring about his air pack and he will me ready for his job upon arrival....Two wraps of the hydrant...stand on the hose with the hydrant behind you and the engine infront of you. There have been cases of firefighters slipping when the rig takes off and their legs have become caught between the hydrant and the 5in...sounds stupid but it's happened
01-25-2000, 10:01 AM #17LHSFirehouse.com Guest
Our engines carry one mile of 5" hose in a flat lay and our trucks 2600 feet. All hose is in a split bed so we can lay one long or two lines at a time. To load the hose we drive forward along side the hose. We leave a small amount of water in the line so as the water drains during loading it sucks the hose flat and keeps the air out. See the Angus Hi Vol video for specifics. One driver, one firefighter on the ground walking beside the rig feeding the hose and two on top of the rig. We load approximately 100 feet a minute. We load the couplings to the front of the bed and on the ladders all couplings go to one side of he turntable. We've lay hose at 25 mph without problem. The faster you drive the straighter the hose lays and the less chance you have of hitting the tailboard.
We use a hydrant strap keeping the hydrant man free of injury. A pack arrangement on the hose leaves a wrench, 2 1/2" to 4 1/2" reducer and a 4 1/4" steamer adapter and 2 1/2" gate valve.
02-14-2000, 03:33 PM #18Joseph MoweryFirehouse.com Guest
Your engines carry one mile of 5"? How
big is your hose bed. 5280 feet of hose and
you load it at 100ft/min. Thats close to
one hour to load. Our hose bed is a little
over half full with 1200' of 4" LDH.
As for keeping air out. We either roll
the hose then load or use the downhill drain
and cap. Loading from the uphill end.
02-14-2000, 08:13 PM #19SBLGFirehouse.com Guest
We run 1000 feet of 4" and 5" LDH flat loaded on our engines with the couplings to the front of the bed. We find that 15 MPH +- works well. Hose is rolled prior to picking it up. We also run 4000 feet of 5" on a reel truck we are able to lay the hose at 15+ MPH and pick up time and work is redcuced by the reel. We need to work down hill all the time or uncouple to drain the water. We can reload 4000 feet in about 30-45 Min with 4 people.
03-13-2000, 03:03 PM #20ffshotimeFirehouse.com Guest
USE SOME TYPE OF BREAK-AWAY STRAP AROUND THE HYDRANT SO THE PLUGMAN CAN STAND CLEAR. ESPECIALLY IF THE APPARATUS IS LAYING AT SPEEDS OVER 5 M.P.H.
Excuse me for shouting there but I am sitting here trying to recover from a severe femur fracture back in Oct. 99. This occured while 5in. hose got hung up and quit releasing from the rear chute of a QUINT. As you could guess, several questions were asked but one step taken to prevent this again was to supply every apparatus with the break-away strap.If anyone else has similiar experiences please e-mail me or respond back.
03-13-2000, 08:06 PM #21FIRE549Firehouse.com Guest
Thanks for the warning. I hope the recovery goes fast. Things can happen quickly on the fireground.
04-12-2000, 11:52 AM #22tmr91Firehouse.com Guest
This question is a little off subject. In regards to loading 5" ldh from a flat road, how would you use the "cap one end" techinque? Some past positings spoke of the uphill/downhill end of the hose. My response area is very flat with little to no hills. Thanks for the help.
04-13-2000, 10:13 PM #23gfd504Firehouse.com Guest
We use a flat lay with a double dutch at the couplings so they don't flip when the hose is pulling off. We also use a hose ringer as we load it back on the truck to alleviate any air problems. When laying the hose we also attempt to drive between 15 and 20 mph to avoid the couplings banging on the tailboard. We have experianced no injuries during deployment by wrapping the hose around the hydrant twice and standing on the free end..
Good Luck and Stay Safe
Grinnell, Iowa FD
04-14-2000, 12:04 AM #24Capt. ZadaFirehouse.com Guest
Would you like to trade some of your flat ground for some hills that work very nicely for draining hose?
04-14-2000, 08:39 AM #25Dalmatian90Firehouse.com Guest
Now for the philosophical question...why does a coupling never end up at the bottom of the hill?
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