Use of Booster Tank Water?

[GBordas]

I have read that a lot of departments rely on the booster tank as their PRIMARY means of water supply for the first stretch until a hydrant is secured by the Chauffeur and/or a Hydrantman.

It has been my understanding that the Booster Tank water should be used as a SECONDARY means of water supply in case of emergencies if there isn't a secure water source such as a OOS hydrant, a delay in the hydrant connection, supply failure, no hydrant, at a location where a hydrant connection will not be necessary such as at a car fire or IDLH where the fire has taken control of the primary means of egress and heavy fire needs to be knocked down quickly by use of the deck gun until the hydrant connection is made.

The time it takes to make the stretch should be plenty of time for the Chauffeur and the Hydrantman to make the connection and get water rather than relying on the Booster as a primary means of water supply.

Your thoughts? Do you have policies on the use of the tank water?

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Ladder1Group1 ]</p>

[SilverCity4]

Since we don't have any hydrants out here, the booster tank is the ONLY means of water supply until the tanker gets there. Believe me, I much rather have a hydrant every coupla hundred feet.

[ffd chief]

TANK WATER? YA GOTTA USE IT THAT IS WHY THEY ARE ON THE APPARATUS RIGHT?

[Dalmatian90]

At 2000' average hydrant spacing, we *never* lay in with the 1st due engine. And the vast majority of our area is un-hydranted so we operate the same in either district.

Our typical 1st alarm assigment has 4 Engine-Tanks carrying 4400 gallons of water for initial attack and to begin a shuttle, and 3 Engine/Hose-Tenders carrying 10,000' of 5" to establish laid lines as needed.

1st in Engine-Tank (usually a 1500gpm/1200gwt/1200'4" w/Class A foam) will go direct to fire attack.

Engine carries is 1500gpm/700gwt with 5000' of 5" that normally reverse lays to water.

2nd due ET is usually a 1000gpm/1200gwt with 1200' 5". Assists with finishing hose lays (we'll split a long driveway -- Engine lays from entrance to water; 2nd ET lays from entrance to fire), and provides immediate resupply to the attack ET.

3rd & 4th Engine Tanks blow off their tank loads & begin shuttling, if neccessary. If the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th are shuttling, depending on distance, they usually provide 200-300gpm sustained. More & Larger tankers available if needed.

2nd & 3rd Engine/Hose-Tenders are available to help finish very long lays or establish a second lay -- as we might do for a commercial/agricultural fire.

[BlackJackCo]

Wow! I'm impressed. I always wondered if relay's were ever used on a regular basis. We have a standing SOP that if smoke is showing we take our own hydrant. If nothing showing, we will use the tank if need be while the 2nd in company lays a line to us from the hydrant. This usually works really well.

[Neal_HP105]

I wouldn't say it is our "primary", but we do use it. We rely on our tank water for what we call "quick water". It is usually enough to supply a single line for maybe two minutes, and this additional time is then used hooking up for hydrant operations. We use LDH and our sop calls for flushing the plug before you hook-up,(keeps debris out of the pump), so if you grab a bad plug, the second-in can be notified to bring a line from their side. You may look bad for a sec, but you are still fightin' the fire. It works for us, so it might be a consideration for ya'll.

[ac52]

Our policy on a confirmed job is for the first Engine to establish a water supply. This could mean stopping at a hydrant and laying in or hand stretching to a plug. Which ever is easier. Either way we always start our attack with tank water.

[911WACKER]

We also have no hydrants, first engine goes directly to attack and next due is 3,000 gallon tanker w/500 gpm pump, this truck nurses the attack engine until a shuttle or relay can be established. Since we statred this technique about 5 years ago we have yet to run out of water before the next in tanker and engine arrive. If a large fire flow is needed we can call the ldh task force which brings 5 engines w/ over 1 mile of 5" to supply a long relay, this coupled whith the tankers will be all the water we will ever need at the present time.

Our 2 nieghboring departments have hydrants both of them lay in from plug on working fire s with first in engine, nothing showing second engine takes the hydrant, this has seemed to work well in the past.

[e1ffmedic]

We use our tank water for the primary attack. The second in engine will lay the supply if needed. With 750 gallons of water in the tank (1000 on two of our engines)you've got 7 minutes of water out of the tank. Second in engine is no more than five minutes out, more like three to four. Cut that by the minute or so to stretch the attack line and you have time to wait on the line. Also, 500 ft. hydrant spacing residential and the medics that respond out of the station with the first in pumper can hand stretch a short lay off the first in pumper. Seems to work.

[ADSNWFLD]

Our rigs are set up for reverse lay, so we almost always lead out. If in the opinion of the first in officer the fire can be extinguished or a good hit put on it, and the extra time to lead out would endanger lives or let the fire get to big we can use tank water.
We have found ourselves using the tank more and more because of the quick hit we can put on the fire. It all comes down to training and experience.

Stay safe

[PFDE4]

Our typical setup is for the first due engine directly to the fire building, ( leaving room for the ladder ) and the second due engine takes care of the water supply. However it is the officers call if he decides the situation calls for the the first due engine to lay itself a feeder.
Often the hydrants are close enough so that the engineer on the second due engine can assist the first due engine in stretching a short feeder to a nearby hydrant.
We run between 500 and 750 gallons on all our engines, plenty of water for initial operations on most fires.

You mentioned deck gun use off a booster tank. IMHO it is an all or nothing attack. If the fire isnt completly exstinguished and there is a delay in getting a reliable water supply you are left sitting there watch the fire grow with nothing to stop it.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: PFDE4 ]

[res7cue]

We sue the booster tank water as primary water supply ONLY until a dedicated supply is established via hydrant.

Once that is accomplished, it is SOP to top the bosster off so that it is full in case you loose your hyrdant line.

Too many operators dump their booster and NEVER fill it after they get the hydrant line established. BAD practice!!!

[OLE]

Always fill booster tank right after hydrant is hooked is drilled in operator's mind. Yes, there are some problems with using booster tank first. In our case the biggest problem would be the "switch over" from booster tank to hydrant supply. If you're making an interrior attack and "SUDDENLY" run out of water without letting your crew know (God forbid) Sh!^ could really hit the fan!!!! That's what scares me...... Always tell the IC when you're switching over so interior crew will hopefully hear and have a heads up on the situation. We run forward from hydrant to fire so by the time we're pumping, the steamer fittings should be hooked and everything ready to go.

[AC1503]

The steamer should be gated and have a dump valve & bleeder. Charge the supply line, bleed the air, open the gate to send hydrant water to the pump, and then close the tank to pump valve. Unless your steamer in ungated, there should never be a reason to lose water at the knob when changing from tank to hydrant supply.

[OLE]

DD-

You're right as far as shouldn't lose water "switching over". BUT I guess it COULD happen that the supply line isn't ready to go by the time booster tank dry! On the fire ground anything that can happen usually does......

[Rescue101]

You puttin' crews in without a radio?If you're running out of water tell interior that.If they don't respond,sound the evac.and get em out.We run tank water all the time but our first due has 1500 gal on.T.C.

[rcbadabing182]

tank water is there if you need it..and if at a working fire your officer calls for water before you as the chauffer or the hydrant man can complete the hook up ,then by all means use what that water is there for and charge the line..chauffers remember to fill the tank as soon as you have established a water supply..

[Rescue101]

What's a hydrant? T.C.

[CAPN22]

Pumper drops man and line at hydrant.
Proceeds to scene
Attack teams grab lines and head in.
Attack lines charged and operated from tank.
Switch to Hydrant as soon as possible.
Top up water tank.
NEVER CLOSE THE TANK TO PUMP VALVE.
Tank can be used to supplement water supply if hydrant feed needs to be exceeded momentarly.
Unit will also switch to tank if hydrant feed is momentarly interupted or lost.

[blackb16]

OR,

Pumper stops at hydrant and engineer gets out hooks up to hydrant turns hydrat on, engages the automatic hydrant valve gets back in pumper and drives to fire.(that way all of your firefighters get to the scene at the same time to fight fire and save lives)

Attack teams grab lines and head in.

Attack lines charged and operated from tank.

Supply line is coupled to pump suction

Hydrant switch is automatic, apparatus has a Pre-con valve and no check valve between pump and tank suction. (As soon as the water from the hydrant gets to the pumper it automatically supplies the pump and fill the water tank without engineer intervention.)

(No problem with engineer filling water tank and robbing water from attack crew then shutting it off causing a hammer on attack lines. )

NEVER CLOSE THE TANK TO PUMP VALVE.
Tank can be used to supplement water supply if hydrant feed needs to be exceeded momentarly.

Unit will also switch to tank if hydrant feed is momentarly interupted or lost.