1. #1
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    Default Supplying the 1st in Engine

    Anyone have any suggestions on how to pump the 1st in engine with the second engine (at the hydrant) when the 2nd engine doesn't have a large diameter discharge. 2 1/2"s to the intake on the 1st engine?

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    Is your first in unit using an LDH intake? If so and you have LDH, I would suggest using two of your 2 1/2" discharges, going to two 25' or 50'(if you have to) 2 1/2" lines siamesed into your LDH. This will help to prevent a great deal of friction loss. Then communicate with the engineer of the 1st in engine and give him all you can from the hydrant making sure he has at least 20 psi intake pressure. That is how our department runs as we only have one engine (mine) with a LDH discharge. Try it and see what works the best.
    Firefighter/Paramedic Ron Sanders
    Midvale Fire Department
    Medic Ambulance 22 - A Platoon

    Firefighters, Walking where the Devil Danced!

    This is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

    Personal Website: http://RonSanders.Biz Check it Out!

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    onycs, I have to disagree with you on your discharge arrangement. Flow tests have proven that a single side 2-1/2" discharge connected directly to a ldh line will flow more water than the siamesed lay you are taliking about. Even though two discharges will flow more than one, the hose evolution you are using eats up the extra gpm gain in friction loss in the 2-1/2" hose and turbulance in the appliance.

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    Jeff if I understand you correctly, you are using 2.5" to do the entire supply lay. If this is the case this is how my dept. does it, although we use 3". The hose bed is split which allows us to lay two lines if needed. If you are laying two supply lines (reverse lay, hyd. pressure only) the hose from the officer side is either handed to the 1st in eng. engineer or hooked to the pump & the engineer is told what port, the hose on the engineer side is then pulled & wraped around the tire that is the farthest from the supply eng. Then the supply eng. goes to the hydrant, Test the hyd. then attach a 2.5" hyd. valve, the hose from the officer side hose is hooked to the hyd. directly and when told to do so open hyd. Then hook up the other hose to the hyd. valve. If more water is needed than the hyd. valve is opened slowly & the 2nd. hose is charged after getting the signal to do so.

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    there are different configurations you can use. Some use a triple gate and supply the LDH layed by first engine with some short 3" lines to the triple gate. otheres have a increaser from 2 1/2" to the LDH storz connection. On the other end you can accomplish the same just in reverse. Put a storz LDH on your intake or a piston relief intake valve.

    Any any case...I dispute that 1 2 1/2" line directly to the LDH will flow more than 2 of the same size if they are wyed or siamesed. Regardless of the friction loss...
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    captstanm1, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It's one side 2-1/2" discharge using a adaptor to a single LDH discharge line. Try it.

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    captstanm1, you know the more that I think about it Iam not sure that two is better then one even if 2-1/2" lines are used for both. There is alot of turbulance created in the siamesed appliance. I will have to do a controlled expieriment and find out. Let me know if you try it, I am intrested .

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    THERE'S ALOT OF FACTORS(IN MY OPINION) THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED. HOW MUCH WATER DOES THE FIRST TRUCK NEED? HOW MUCH CAN THE 2ND SUPPLY AT CAPACITY. IF THE 1ST HAS 2 2.5 INTAKES, RUN DUALS AND JUST GO WITH IT. MORE IS BETTER THAN NOT ENOUGH. I KNOW A 3" CAN SUPPLY 2 200'1.75 LINES FLOWING AT 130 - 150PSI B/C I DO IT ALL OF THE TIME, WITH INTAKE ABOUT 20-30PSI, AND THE SUPPLY TRUCK DOSEN'T HAVE TO PUSH IT HARD. MY ADVISE TO YOU IS TO EXPERIMENT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS -LUCK 2 U...

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    On our Department we use LDH to supply pumpers either from a hydrant or from another pumper. We use a 2 1/2" NST TO 5" STORTZ. We seem to have good luck here in Southern IL with this system. Good Luck.

    Mark Seaton
    Captain
    Mt Carmel Fire Department
    Fireman_06@yahoo.com

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    I will have to test the single 2 1/2 discharge to LDH. We rarely have to worry about it as my engine has an LDH discharge. But in my head now it seems that 2 2 1/2" discharges will supply the volumn you need better than a single 2 1/2" discharge. Friction loss is not the most important factor here as the low friction loss of the LDH makes up for the difference. The idea of LDH is volumn. But thanks for the input I will test it and see which is better.
    Firefighter/Paramedic Ron Sanders
    Midvale Fire Department
    Medic Ambulance 22 - A Platoon

    Firefighters, Walking where the Devil Danced!

    This is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

    Personal Website: http://RonSanders.Biz Check it Out!

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    All of our pumps have a 2 1/2" discharge which has a 5" adapter on it for this very reason. It works well.

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