I would like to take this discussion out of the shopping & technology comparison mode and enter a new area. For some reason it seams almost every discussion leads back to one camera and the comments from their representative.
I would like to know if anyone has experienced a failure of a TIC under fire conditions, and if it had a detrimental effect on operations. One fear of many people if the SUPERMAN syndrome or the potential for over penetration by firefighters into an area. This point has been brought up by all manufacturers reps Iíve spoken to and was discussed at the TIC Forum at the Firehouse Expo 99í in Baltimore.
I am not asking for the name of the camera and do not want to turn this into a lecture from any one individual. I am simply asking for real world experience from the people using these devices.
Captain, Metuchen FD
President, Jersey Fire & Rescue
[This message has been edited by jerseyfire (edited February 23, 2000).]
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Thread: Camera Failure - DANGER!
02-23-2000, 12:19 AM #1jerseyfireFirehouse.com Guest
Camera Failure - DANGER!
02-23-2000, 01:11 AM #2BriTHFDFirehouse.com Guest
Haven't had any failures, but, also haven't pushed the camera to the edge yet. We have, however, touched upon a solution to the superman syndrome. Let a team use the camera in a smokehouse. When they are all the way in, take the camera away from them and make them find their way out.
Nothing can compare to the real thing, but, training firefighters to use the skills we were taught before the arrival of TIC's might make them not rely too heavily on the camera.
02-23-2000, 09:25 AM #3S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
I haven't seen ours fail yet under any circumstance, from getting it too hot for an extended period to dropping it.
I haven't seen any hard data to support this anywhere either, just reps telling you don't buy brand X because it craps out when it gets hot.
If you mfgs reading this want to test your cameras head to head for this, drop me a line, we'll set up test parameters and see what happens next.
02-23-2000, 11:24 AM #4LHSFirehouse.com Guest
If the camera took a dive you'd be in better shoes than if you didn't have a camera. You'd know what room you were in. What rooms you had passed through, your proximity to the fire and other hazards. None of that infor would be known in smoke without an imager.
What if the chief in KC had one? Could he have told the rescuers exactly where he was? Maybe found his own way out? Transmitted an image even after going unconcious to let others know where to find him?
02-23-2000, 11:55 AM #5jerseyfireFirehouse.com Guest
I like the idea BriTHFD had about taking the camera away once the members had reached a certain point. This will defiantly reinforce the need to follow traditional training to back up the technology.
LHS Ė Youíre right and thereís no doubt youíre better off with the camera than without, but anybody whoís been inside a smoke filled building knows how easy it is to get disoriented. Iím just curious how departments are training their members to avoid total dependence on the technology.
1 Ė Does the second man in line maintain his left or right search pattern?
2 Ė Does the camera operator call out specific landmarks as they pass?
3 Ė Dose the department have a specific procedure for camera failure? (like back out
and start again)
Iím not questioning the technology, Iím just trying to take the discussion into the practical application of the devices. I want to hear from those who use them and what theyíve learned.
Captain, Metuchen FD
President, Jersey Fire & Rescue
02-23-2000, 03:25 PM #6S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
Still use traditional concepts (e.g. stay close to the wall) the imager is just a tool. But, we're making the transition to an oriented search style that works quicker than traditional wall hugging, both with and without an imager.
Remember, with an imager you may not have to go all around a room to search it thoroughly. Depending on its configuration and contents, you could do it from the door or from a few points inside that give you the angles to see around or under contents.
The TIC operator checks their position in relation to where they came from every 10 feet or so, including which way is out, and any time they go through a doorway. If anything's different they let the crew know.
And although we're a small town (~6,000 pop.), we're fortunate to have a community that supports us. All 3 of our first due apparatus have imagers. If one failed, another crew has an imager inside or at the door.
02-23-2000, 06:05 PM #7LHSFirehouse.com Guest
I agree with Scott. What he said plus the fact each imager is broadcasting to the outside and that is being viewed by command and all are being recorded gives us just one more ace in the hole should something fail. Command where know where they last saw us. In addition we have tracking device to find any downed or lost crew and real time accountability systems.
I think we have 1 imager per 500 people in the community and every rig packs 2.
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