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  1. #1
    no_name_FF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question It's free, so why not?

    Can someone explain this one to me....

    NJ is giving every fire department a free TIC (or some $$$ for a prior purchase).

    Why then, with something like 1,000 fire departments, have only 300 requests been filed?

    This program has been approved since last September or so.

    Why haven't the other 700 depts come forward?

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    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!


  2. #2
    mongofire_99
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Probably leery or afraid of the potential bueracracy involved. You know the kind, if they give you something, you gotta do something for them (sorta sounds like the mafia now that I say it like that). Like the school lunch program in our government schools - they'll give you money for the kids lunch, but the school has to add government 'desired' cirricullum to get it. Education was so much better before they got involved...

    Here's mongos solution - give the other 700 dept's 180 days, then send the 300 that applied another camera or two - every engine should have one. The 100 or so left over can go to the engine companies in the bigger cities.

  3. #3
    Halligan84
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I'm pretty sure we don't have 1000 fire departments in NJ, but I have heard that Departments are not filing for their free camera due to the 3 year NFIRS stipulation.. pretty amazing eh?

  4. #4
    no_name_FF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Ah, the NFIRS stipulation....

    Now, I may have a little bit of legal expertise.... <wink>

    I have reviewed the Statute that created the NJ TIC program, and no where in there does it say anything about NFIRS reporting. The Division of Fire Safety has adopted no regulations (laws) making NFIRS a requirement.... which leads me to believe that DFS could NEVER enforce the NFIRS requirement....

    That being said, DFS is also offering free NFIRS software, so whats the problem?

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    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

  5. #5
    Eng 48
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    OK, Some of our guys went to a class on NFIRS. At the end of the class they went over the rules and regs for obtaining a camera. From what I was told, Cameras are delt out on first come first serve basis. You must start reporting to NFIRS within one month of recieving the camera. You may also purchase a second camera, at state cost, within one year after recieving your camera. I'm not positive, but this is what I remember them telling us. Good luck!

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    Be safe everyone!

  6. #6
    no_name_FF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This is probably going off topic, but I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to report using NFIRS. Yes, it is a little more work, however, it will help the State keep accurate statistics, get more Federal funding, etc.

    Also, it gives you a professional looking report to print out when needed.

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    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

  7. #7
    FireTIC
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    In response to Eng 48 and no_name_FF,

    Eng 48,
    I also was under the impression that the NFIRS requirement was part of the NJ TIC program (even though it wasnt part of the original legislation). I thought you actually had to sign a contract before you recieved a camera.

    no_name_FF,
    If what you say is true, another question comes to mind. What would be the penalty for not reporting? are they going to take the camera away from the department? or maybe they will send the department a bill for the cost of the camera.

    I firmly believe the NJ-DFS has taken on this program as a political move. They had nothing to do with the original legislation and have taken alot of credit for it. The DFS was also pushing the free cameras down the throat of NJ-FDs who wanted to file for a reimbursement. We will all find out the truth when it is all over.


    FRD
    NJ-ISG Dealer

    [This message has been edited by FireTIC (edited June 29, 2000).]

  8. #8
    no_name_FF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    FireTIC,

    I don't know about the shoving down the throat... but the NFIRS requirement is in a contract. The State Legislature passed a bill that was to provide every fire department with a TIC:

    52:27D-25b1 Thermal imaging camera grant program.

    1.There is hereby established in the Division of Fire Safety in the Department of
    Community Affairs a thermal imaging camera grant program, under which grants shall be made available to governing fire organizations that apply to assist in the purchase of thermal imaging cameras or to reimburse governing fire organizations for public funds other than State funds that
    have been expended for the purchase of thermal imaging cameras. The appropriate State agency shall contract with a manufacturer to obtain the best price available. The Department of Community Affairs may require, pursuant to such uniform standards as the department may prescribe, fire districts that apply for such grants to provide matching funds of up to, but not more
    than, the amount of the grant awarded.

    There shall be available for the support of the thermal imaging camera grant program such sums as shall be appropriated therefor in the Appropriations Act for the State Fiscal Year ending June 30, 2000.

    As used in this section, "governing fire organizations" means a municipality, fire district, fire company or fire department responsible for providing fire protection in any given municipality.

    L.1999,c.229,s.1.

    This is the entire law, nowhere does it mention NFIRS.....

    (This can be looked up on http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/html/statutes.htm)

    The DFS added in the NFIRS requirement by making the company sign a contract when they get the camera. This would likely be struck down in Court....

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    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

  9. #9
    Director
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    As of July 3, 2000 over 615 cameras or reimbursement for cameras have been contracted.

    The Division has sent out first class registered letters to all other municipalities and fire districts that had not responded previously.

    We stand ready to work with all fire departments in understanding the importance of the NFIRS program. Without documentation and statistics the fire service is unable justify its needs. NFIRS is an extremely important program for New Jersey as well as Nationally. The New Jersey fire service needs to continue to be the leaders in the fire service.

    After the first round of camera distribution we will be starting the second round by population in areas served. We expect to be giving out over 975 cameras or combination of camera reimbursement. The Division of Fire Safety thanks the legislature in their infinite wisdom for this program.



  10. #10
    no_name_FF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Director:

    How does the distribution work where two or more departments have banded together under one department heading?

    Does the one department get a TIC or does each company get one?

    BTW, great job with the whole program, the new web site, etc.

    One suggestion, should have info on website on how to submit NFIRS data, mailing address, e-mail, etc.

    ------------------
    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

  11. #11
    Director
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    No Name FF

    Each municipality gets one, each fire district gets one. Additional cameras will be given out based upon population, at this time we are looking at approximately fifteen thousand population for additional cameras. Special consideration will be given to very large municipalities with low population.

    Thanks for the additional request for NFIRS data on our website. We will look into it.



  12. #12
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Is there a list out there anywhere to find out where your dept. stands on the delivery schedule. I check Bullard's site often and their NJ list hasn't been updated in quite a while. Director's post says 615 have been contracted and Bullard's list has something like 391 listed.

    Any ideas???

  13. #13
    FireTIC
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    FFTrainer,

    You might want to try contacting to Div. of Fire Safety. I believe the list on Bullards website is done by the DFS. They should know more about the delivery schedule.

    Hope this helps.

    FRD

  14. #14
    TIMan
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hello All,

    Bullard will continue to post information on TI delivery dates as it is passed along from the DFS. As mentioned, if you really need additional information please check with the DFS.

    If you have any questions on training, or other issues, also please check the Bullard NJ web page.
    www.thermalimager.com/techSpecs/newJersey.htm

    Good Luck, Be Safe,
    “TIman”

    Mike Richardson
    Bullard TI Training Specialist

  15. #15
    Eng 48
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    HEY! WE GET OUR CAMERA MONDAY!!!!!! Can't wait.

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    Be safe everyone!

  16. #16
    cwerner
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    While I cannot address the NFIRS requirement for the TIC's in NJ, let me say that the lack of NFIRS reporting is one of the largest reasons that we do not get the support from Congress. The police have done a much better job of incident statistical reporting and they now receive upwards of $11 billion per year in grant money.

    That funding would allow departments to buy the basics, replace fire apparatus, purchase new technology items like TICs, etc.

    REPORT REPORT REPORT REPORT

    Imagine that, doing the reporting could get every department in this country significant money that could help the departments save lives of civilians and firefighters and prevent damage caused by fire.

    Every department needs a thermal image camera!

    Charles



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    Charles L. Werner, Firehouse.com Webteam
    Technology Editor, Forum Moderator

  17. #17
    FireAlan
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I can only imagine the press coverage if a trapped child was not found in time and the family found out that FREE lifesaving cameras were available, but, the "ever so wise" chiefs thought it was too much trouble to fill out some forms. I could only imagine the scorn and shame the "chief" would endure, not to mention, possible lawsuits for negligence.

    This technology is the biggest thing since the SCBA, to not have it, is a crime.

    By the way, my department ,still, hasn't gotten one!

  18. #18
    FFTrainer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    Happy to say that after my grumbling and groaning looking for an updated list of deliveries, we are getting ours on Monday!!!

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