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  1. #1
    DCDALEY
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry Emergency One Rescue Pumper Shuts Down on Calls

    My department has had a 1997 E1 R/P for several years. Detroit 8V92, Automatic. We have had this thing to Detroit several (many) times and to E1 occassionally because the thing just drops to an idle going to down the road, or while pumping. The electronically controlled throttle takes a break and the unit needs to be shut down and restarted to get control back. It may go weeks before it happens again.

    E1 says "Detroit ECM Problem." Detroit says "No, E1 FirePackage problem." It is now sitting at an E1 dealer/service center and they can't duplicate the condition. They pumped it for 12 hours straight and drove it for several days when the had the time. NOTHING.

    Anyone had a similar experience and a remedy???

    My personnel have NO CONFIDENCE in this vehicle. Last time it shut down while fighting an automobile fire.



    ------------------
    Albert L. Daley Jr.
    Deputy Fire Chief
    Ft Meade DFES


  2. #2
    Batt #2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE ELECTRONIC FOOT PEDAL ON ONE OF MY UNITS. IT HAD A SHORT. SOMETIMES IT WAS FINE AND OTHERS IT WOULD GO TO IDLE. I THINK THEY CALL THIS FOOT PEDAL A VENIER CABLE. IT SHOULD BE HOOKED BETWEEN THE PUMP PANEL AND THE FLOOR CONTROL BY ELECTRICAL WIRES. LOOK INTO REPLACING THE WIRING OR LOOK FOR A SHORT. MOST OF THE WIRES MOVE VOLTAGE AND YOU COULD HOOK A VOLT METER TO THE WIRES AND SEE IF YOU HAVE A DROP IN VOLTAGE WHEN THE PROBLEM STARTS.

    JUST AN IDEA FROM A PROBLEM I HAD.

  3. #3
    WRENCH
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    DC, we have had a some what similar problem with our 94 pierce tower which has the same power train. you did not say what pump you have. it is more than likly that your e-1 is wired pretty close or the same as ours with the interlocks and such. the vernier cable is the throttle on the pump panel which would throttle up by the cable but would by pass the foot pedal. our problem stemmed back to a pumplockup relay and the parking brake relay which is suppossed to lockout the foot pedal.it sounds like one of your interlock relays might be one of your problems . what you might want to do is do a post on www.naevt.org and see what the some of the knowledgebly people there can come up with.
    it would also not hurt to touch base with the pump manufactuer to see if there is an interface problem.

  4. #4
    swunder1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    I test about 100 trucks a year. I have seen this problem many times with the detroit's. your problem is a detroit problem. what is happening you are loosing either the ground or the 12 reference at the encine control module. it only takes a split second of power or ground loss to cause this.. when it happens can you restart and the the throttle works fine again.. E-mail me swunder1@tampabay.rr.com

  5. #5
    smitheps
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Its not just a problem with Detroit power plants. I have had the exact same problem with a 1998 Cummins M-11 powered Sparten/3D

  6. #6
    csgos
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Have you investigated the idea of installing a manual pump throttle on your apparatus? If your accelerator pedal has a cable connection to the engine, it should not take more than thirty minutes, and approximately Fifty Dollars to install.

    Even though electronics are fine, I do not need failures at an emergency scene, and I am sure you do not either.

    Comments?

    By the way, my company was using a quint as a ladder truck several weeks ago. During post response, we attempted to turn the apparatus around. My driver advised me the accelerator was not working, but idling. We turned it off and tried again. We were attempting to climb a hill, and it went to idle again, then the motor shut down completely. We had to let it roll into a cul-de-sac. I think this apparatus was a Pierce also, but don't quote me on it. The mechanic appeared about an hour later, and thought it was the batteries (NOT!). Further field investigation revealed possible diesel fuel injector pump problem.

    [This message has been edited by csgos (edited April 16, 2000).]

  7. #7
    Halligan84
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Thats the problem, electronic engines don't have manual linkage. Take a look under the accelerator, you'll find a switch!

    We had a similar problem with our Cummins/Allison.. take a look at the trans gear selector.. do you see the normal 1-5 or --.. we had the problem too, start the truck, 2 lines, no shift, shut down, restart problem fixed. Happened once on arrival at a run, pump went in ok, but throttle at pump wouldn't work. Tried the accelerator, still operable. The cab throttle is supposed to lock out when you go to pump. Our problem eventually traced back to Allison's control module, which they weren't real happy about replacing for an "intermittent" problem. I'm pretty sure that if they put your rig on a computer they can "read" past problems.

  8. #8
    DCDALEY
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    The Emergency One representative worked on the unit for a couple of days and returned it to us. They replaced the Interface Module and they replaced the Accelerator"Cable". This seems to have corrected the problem, we have had no failures since the changes.

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