I am taking no one's job where I live. It is a small bedroom community. The entire FD budget is less than 40K. There is no way full timers are losing out here. If it came to that I would quit the FD to protect my union brothers.
I would be willing to bet with our run volume I am better rested than the guys working construction or some other labor intensive side jobs. But that never seems to be an issue because it isn't fire related.
Also, if being a volly is restricted what is next? Snow skiing, motorcycle riding, hunting, mountain climbing? These are all risky activities too, but no one is telling FF not to do them on their days off. And certainly your FD is under no obligation to pay a death benefit if you are killed doing them.
I guess in my mind we all accept risks in our life at a level that we are comfortable with. I will not attack you for not volunteering, just as I would not attack you for skydiving if that was your choice. It is as you say, a personal choice and it is one I have made and am comfortable with.
Stay safe and enjoy the Holiday Season. By the way if you want to talk about risks. You should have been here when my kids found out I had to work Christmas Day. Now that was hazardous duty!!
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Thread: Career FFs who also Volunteer
12-18-1999, 10:02 AM #21FyredUpFirehouse.com Guest
12-18-1999, 11:20 AM #22DED1645Firehouse.com Guest
Something that Benson911 said is that why risk his life for a volley dept. make no sense. You are a proffesional that happens to be a firefighter. That's your job. Just like the police officer or a store manager or what ever it is that you choose to do for a career. Does that mean ever person that has a professional job shouldn't volunteer. For every person no matter what they do for a living is at the same risk of something happening on a volley job. Because your a career firefighter doesn't mean that you are any more of a risk then a lawyer that volunteers at a dept. I see you give time to you community and that is commendable, but your initial statement seems to say no one should volunteer for they make a living to support a family. Please don't take this as an attack of career personal because it's not. I believe that all career personal Police, firefighter, medics all fields of public service are unappriciated and extremely under paid. But the simple fact is that a large portion of communities need career service period end of story, but some communities need volunteers for the communities can't afford to support a career service. Personally I think the service should be taken out of the hands of the municipalities and be given to the county level. States that have this IN MY PERSONALLY OPINION! are better off. I've seen a large variety and have riden in multiply departments in multiple states and have drawn my own conclusions to county run departments.
Sorry Brian for getting of the subject. But I've said before that you volunteer for your town because you are giving to your community. If you make friends in the process great, But I didn't start firefighting to make friends. It was something in me that said this is something you would love to do. No one led me into it. No one in my family was in the service prior to me. So I guess I was born to do it. And after almost 10 yrs. I love it as if it was my first year. Good Luck in you decision.
Every stay safe and come home to you families and friends.
Merry Christmas all and have a good and safe New Year.
Presently Lindenwold,NJ(I'm not a member of any of this District's dept's.)
12-18-1999, 02:29 PM #23benson911Firehouse.com Guest
I never said people shouldn't volunteer - I said full-time firefighters who are already doing the riskiest job in the world, shouldn't do the exact same thing on their days off. A lawyer doesn't risk his life every day at work, firefighters do.
As far as skiing, mountain climbing, etc., those are avocations, not vocations. The comparison isn't there. Firefighting is not a hobby, volunteers do the same "professional" job full-timers do. I commend them for that - I used to be one!
I only expressed how I made a choice not to add to the high risk I already present to my family just by being a full-time firefighter.
I have not felt volunteers threatening my job, however the volunteers where I live were ready to fight the levy that would have hired full-time employees. Luckily, they decided not to fight it together and only a couple had "Vote No" signs in their yard next to their VFD car with lights on top. The levy passed - the volunteers still make the runs and they get a higher pay when they respond. Overall, the citizens have better service and that's what it's all about.
Stay safe - have a good holiday season.
12-19-1999, 10:38 AM #24Ed ShanksFirehouse.com Guest
My disdain for politicians has been widely documented. I would refer you to http://www.cisnet.com/jimlilko/corrupt.htm for a peek at local politics here.
We don't wait that long on most of our calls, but we have waited that long. Our times, including when the OIC requested mutual aid, are documented by Dispatch. We don't have automatic aid, but we're not shy about asking for help, either.
Actually, our main problem is that most of our structures are too new. Not much burns here. What the politicians fail to realize, and I'm sure our chief has mentioned it, is that the fires we DO have require as many firefighters to safely and efficiently extinguish as anybody else's fires. And a lot of damage was done by a former chief - he's a very long rant in himself - who if he didn't actually falsify his figures he certainly misrepresented them to his higher-ups. He would report that there were 15 firefighters on the scene of such-and-such fire. Well, *maybe* the grand total was that many, but the initial call was answered by 6 firefighters, who dragged hoses, tied in to hydrants, set up ventilation and made interior attacks and searches and rescues when needed. Of those 6 there was an OIC, who's not going to be dragging hose/etc, and a pump operator, who has his own job to do as soon as he gets there. Maybe the nearest hydrant was 1000 feet away or more. We'd have to relay pump, tying up another man. So three actually set things up and made the initial attack.
The politicians don't want to hear this - we've told them again and again. We do tell the public when they stop with their kids to look at the fire trucks, or when we get the chance to talk to them. I'm sure the politicians would consider it mutinous if we'd hold a press conference and lay everything out, but that might be what it takes.
All I know is (to get back to the subject) the part-timers aren't doing us any good, and with the small number of them that we have, we're lucky to see one or two during daylight hours. But they are thrown in our faces during negotiations, where we have to go to binding arbitration just to get a cost-of-living raise.
12-20-1999, 09:49 AM #25FyredUpFirehouse.com Guest
I think this topic has gotten way off the original track. There is a huge difference in volunteering where you live where there are no career FF's, and having volunteers/paid on calls involved with your career FF job.
If you volunteer where you live and there are no career FF's you are taking no ones job and you understand and assume the risk you are taking. It is no one's business but yours and your family. If you volunteer in a career department you must understand the big picture. You may in fact be stopping the community from hiring more career FF. But again, I don't have all the facts of these situations. Perhaps there is no more money for more career FF's.
Now, I am going to duck since I am sure I have ****ed off both my union brothers and the vollies with this post.
12-20-1999, 04:03 PM #26Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
FyredUp, you may have ****ed off the fanatics on both sides, but you pretty much summed it up in a nutshell! Good job.
12-22-1999, 08:00 PM #27Ed ShanksFirehouse.com Guest
Even I have to agree on that!
If all the community can afford is a volunteer department, then that's what they get. But full-time firefighters who volunteer for another community should know what they or their next-of-kin should expect before the unthinkable happens. Too many families have found out the hard way.
I'm not saying to do it or not do it - that's up to the individual. But I am saying that if you choose to do it you should do so fully understanding all the facts.
12-22-1999, 09:52 PM #28Scott ClarkFirehouse.com Guest
Well said Fyredup! I tried saying that in another post and was shot down for saying that. I also received 16 "not so nice emails" about my thoughts. I answered them all and stand by what I said.
If we stand united.... We will never fall.
12-28-1999, 11:51 PM #29ff emt-p bleveFirehouse.com Guest
YES I AM A SINNER,AFTER A 24 HOUR SHIFT I DRIVE TO MY HOMETOWN AND VOLUNTEER WITH A SMALL RURAL FIRE DEPARTMENT.SMALL TOWN AMERICA I LOVE IT.CAREER / VOLLY AND PROUD OF IT.YOU
SEE OUR VOLUNTEER'S ,WILL THAN DONT FIGHT AND COMPLAIN ABOUT EACH OTHER .WE WORK WELL TOGETHER.SOME DAY MAYBE THIS REGION CAN SUPPORT CAREER STAFFING, UNTIL THEN CALL ME A BAD GUY,BUT IF YOU CALL WE WILL COME.MIXED VOLLYS AND CAREER'S BY THE DOZENS.
[This message has been edited by ff emt-p bleve (edited December 28, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by ff emt-p bleve (edited December 30, 1999).]
01-18-2000, 11:09 PM #30PizanFirehouse.com Guest
I am a career firefighter who also was and is a POP. I'll just say this I will never forget where I came from and remeber this simple fact there is and will always be more Volunteer, POP, POC, PT, etc. firefighters in the US than paid.
I will also say I have enjoyed most of my volly time a hell of a lot more than my career time. So to those of you who cannot handle it, but out of your brothers time off, they can do what ever they want.
01-18-2000, 11:11 PM #31PizanFirehouse.com Guest
Excellent job FyredUp. BULLSEYE!
02-09-2000, 05:15 PM #32Firefighter 108Firehouse.com Guest
truck 2 you are right!!!!!!
02-09-2000, 05:28 PM #33Firefighter 108Firehouse.com Guest
Your right but nobody wants to pay for fulltimers when they can get parttimers for less & no benes. I'm a parttimer at 2 fd in pa where most are volly. At one dept we have IAFF guys, two type of part timers and vollys. IF the IAFF look at hrs worked and not at what the city or bourgh said as far as parttime or fulltime and let all paid ff they can grow in size. I work more hrs. than the fulltimers alot of the time
02-11-2000, 08:08 PM #34lt.jmp21Firehouse.com Guest
Where i come from the dept is both paid and volunteer. Almost all of the paid guys were vollys in the city before thay got hired for the job. Most of them forgot there volly roots and became union men, but there are still a few who still come down to the hall and help out there volly brothers. We dont all get along with each other but when it comes down to fighting the fire we all work togher. Dont get me wrong i am not anti paid person or any thing. Actually I plan on becoming a paid firefighter for a living.
everone stay safe.
These are my views and not nessesarly the views of the Active Hose Co or the NTFD
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