01-22-2000, 09:17 AM #1Lt OvermyerFirehouse.com Guest
Firefighters! We all our Professionals......
I know each and every one of us try to be professional in our jobs each and every day. Whether we are called to do the job of a small trash fire, a car wreck, a huge Haz mat incident, multi alarm working fires, Plane crashes, you name it, we as "FIREFIGHTERS" respond everyday....
Over the past few months, in the forums and in the firehouse chat room, there has been a lot of bickering, arguing, down right bashing of our profession. What I mean is, the question of who is better, Career or Volunteer.
As it has been said over and over, who cares if it is a volunteer or career who shows up at my house and pulls my kids out of a fire. They are still called firefighters.
Brothers and Sisters, we need to get over this argument...We need to stop throwing this argument over the internet and this forum. I am sure there are a lot of people who take articles like this and use it to battle against us when it comes to legislation that is being developed to help get us aid.
I know there are some who just like to throw this question out just so they can see how many people they can get fighting and then they have a great laugh over it. But do to the internet, this is reaching a lot more people than just us (firefighters). So please next time you want to stir the sh**, remember that you may be effecting your own out come when it comes to passing new legislation, or just plain hiring practices.
More of us, need to ban together and try to stop this arguing. Lets band together and fight the governments (Local or State or Nation). Please I urge you to think about this situation that is really getting out of control.
You ask for my background, Well I started out as a Volunteer (15rs), I became a Career (14yrs), I did both for awhile. But now I am just a Career firefighter. The reason is I just have no time to do both, for family reasons. You ask would I ever volunteer again, You bet. This nation was built on a lot of people volunteering to get the job done. It used to be called helping your neighbor. It is time we help ourselves.
I know there are different thoughts on this in each of your own fire districts. Please lets try to keep them there, and not all over the world. I thank you for your time, and your thoughts. We are all firefighters.
We are all Professionals......
God Bless each and everyone of you this New Year....Stay safe and Stay low......
Lt. Brett J Overmyer
01-22-2000, 09:28 AM #2mfgentiliFirehouse.com Guest
Good thoughts and words Lt. I agree with you 100%. Let's all remember the immortal words of Rodney King.
01-22-2000, 11:59 AM #3mtnfireguyFirehouse.com Guest
Well Said Lt Overmyer
01-22-2000, 12:37 PM #4Ed ShanksFirehouse.com Guest
I thought this forum, at least, has been behaving itself lately. I must not be reading the right topics.
Where has the bickering been taking place?
01-22-2000, 03:52 PM #5PizanFirehouse.com Guest
Excellent job Lt.!!!!!
01-22-2000, 05:37 PM #6benson911Firehouse.com Guest
I agree with Ed - ever since the big Knobman blow out this forum has been pretty respectable. Even when a fulltimer asked about everyone's opinion of volunteering on his off days, the discussion was appropriate and without malice to any person's "professional FF status."
Where is this Vollie vs Fulltimer problem lately?
01-23-2000, 03:39 PM #7Lt OvermyerFirehouse.com Guest
Ed shanks,,and Benson911, Yes you are right the bickering in the forums has settled down, since knobman left. But in the firehouse live chat, it has continued on. I hope by myself and others speaking up that we can help the situation. I know that I have spoke with several and have helped them to understand. I can only hope that others will do the same when they see the issue come up again. We have to stick together.
Sorry it took so long to respond, but been on vacation. I look forward to every one's opinion.
Stay safe and Stay low.
Lt. Brett J Overmyer
This is my opinion and not the opinions of the Carmel Fire Department.
01-23-2000, 10:00 PM #8benson911Firehouse.com Guest
Lt. - sorry I misunderstood. I don't do the live chat thing, so I haven't seen it. Thanks for the response.
01-24-2000, 06:09 PM #9Ed ShanksFirehouse.com Guest
You're welcome to try to change peoples' minds on emotional subjects such as the Eternal Career/Volunteer Debate, but I'll bet most people have their minds made up pretty firmly. I know my opinions are pretty firm.
Personally, I hope the Great Debate stays in the chat area, and doesn't appear here at all.
01-25-2000, 01:46 AM #10D. AndersonFirehouse.com Guest
I couldn't agree with you more LT. Overmyer!. When my wife and I first got our computer I resisted even looking at the Firehouse forums for about three months because I thought that all that was going to be on here was the arguments of career vs. vollie, Smooth bore vs. automatic, etc. I finally broke down and looked and found this refreshing.
I've experienced a little of this rivalry between full time and vollie at community college where I've been taking fire classes since I graduated from rookie school, and most of the students (like 99%) are volunteers. It's like some of them resent me for being full time. They are in the minority though, and most of them have been great and are trying to learn from me just like I'm trying to learn from them. Most of the Vollies I go to school with I wish were on my department because they're so damn good and care more about the job than many of the career guys I work with. In fact, the reason that I go to school is that in many ways they're way ahead of us in tactics and equipment, just not experience. I hope to make a tradeoff and learn something that may save my life someday. The rigs and equipment that the Vollies around here have are simply unbelievable! I have some envy. What I really resent and is the reason I answered this thread is that a few of them have the gall to say that they are firefighters because they love it and this is just a job for me. I realize that it's the minority saying this, but it just kills me. I in no way feel that we're better than them and in fact feel that in some ways are behind many of the Vollies around here. Is this why there were problems in the forums in the past?
[This message has been edited by D. Anderson (edited January 25, 2000).]
01-26-2000, 08:21 AM #11Lt OvermyerFirehouse.com Guest
Thanks for your response and others a thank you to all of you.... As Ed Shanks put it. I think every one is set in there own opinions about the great debate. My concern is at some time this debate needs to change speeds and focus on the bigger issues of getting federal support for our profession.
I think enough said on this subject. When we start putting our own opinions on here, we are more than likely going to step on someone's toes. And yes it may hurt. We just need to remember that we are all in this together, not against each other, but for each other.
Again thanks for the responses everyone, Stay safe and stay low.
Lt. Brett J Overmyer
This is my opinion and not the opinions of the Carmel Fire Department.
02-24-2000, 02:15 PM #12Sneezy_248Firehouse.com Guest
AMEN LT. I LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE. AS A CAREER FIREFIGHTER, MY BUTT HAS BEEN SAVED MORE THAN ONCE BY A "VOLLIE". WHEN THE BELL RINGS, WE ARE ALL
02-29-2000, 08:25 AM #13MVFD108Firehouse.com Guest
Whats the only difference between Career & Volunteer? One gets a paycheck every two weeks & one doesn't.The fires still burn just as hot for the vollies as they do the career guys.I'm a volunteer and I train with career guys as well as vollies and theres no difference between the two,as long as there is dedication and a willingness to do the job and do it right, in my book there never will be a difference
03-02-2000, 06:43 PM #14firefighter_IAFFFirehouse.com Guest
For the most part I agree with the Lt. I also think that those that have bad opinions of volunteers in general may have some justifiable reasons. I know that we have had our share of problems in our career/volunteer department. My opinion is that I take each person for who they are and why they are there reagardless of their paid or non paid status. I was a volunteer for 4 years before I got hired full time. I had to endure the bad treatment by some career members. I think we should respect all opinions as long as they are stated in a relatively cicil manner. I do not go into live chat so I have not seen the specific comments. Just because someone does not like volunteers does not make them a bad person. What makes them a bad person is when they espress their opinion in a childish and deragatory manner. There are great people on both sides of the issue. There are great volunteers and bad ones just like there are great paid guys and bad ones.
03-19-2000, 12:04 PM #15Smoke286Firehouse.com Guest
I am not getting sucked into this discussion again. I have been both a suburban volunteer firefighter, and a paid professional in an urban Dept. I can state catagorically that there is no comparison between the two.
I am not trying to belittle Volunteers, I enjoyed it immensly and would recommend it to anyone who was so inclined, but dont try to pretend that the challanges are the same.
Atleast in my experience. I'm sorry I am not trying to be inflamatory.
04-16-2000, 02:00 PM #16SpannerFirehouse.com Guest
As the Training Officer for both career and volunteers, I would like to state for the record, that the only difference I see is that I am lucky enough to be paid for the profession I love.
I have volunteers that I have had the pleasure of training to Level 1 certification that I would go in and fight hell with a water pistol with them.
I get paid they do it out of love for their community.
Our county and city has a great working relationship and I am very proud of both.
04-26-2000, 05:03 PM #17Truck 2Firehouse.com Guest
Can anyone out there tell me why there arn't any volunteer police officers? The biggest thing I see between volunteer and payed fire depts. are responce time. I've worked both sides of the fence. I know several well trained volunteers firefighters that I would fight fire with any day.The problem is with todays loss of volunteers some depts. just can't make the calls or run with unsafe numbers of personal.The federal gov. is going to through money at this problem just like they do everything else but that might not be the right fix.I know of several local volunteer depts. around us have live in programs started to help the problem but I'm affraid this is just a bandaid on a deep cut! Many depts. could help the problem by having just one paid crew on a engine that could take care of most automatic alarms and the fender bender car accidents that they run daily. Purchasing bigger Trucks and Pumpers don't do anyone any good if you can't get them out the door.Thats one of the problems with payed depts. when the people who pay the bills think fire trucks put out fires by themselves.
04-26-2000, 05:29 PM #18SantFireFirehouse.com Guest
Hey, Truck 2
There are volly cops, they're called auxilaries, at least that's what we have in Ohio.
04-26-2000, 09:07 PM #19pwduffyFirehouse.com Guest
We are all in the same business, Life Safety so lets cut it there, and honor our life calling okay. We all do the same things ride the same equipment and have the same certifications.
Have a wonderful time doing what only a few of us in this country can do fight fire.
04-26-2000, 09:35 PM #20Lt. FrankFirehouse.com Guest
100% agreement LT. I have been on both sides of the issue also. Started as a callman and currently working as a career FF/EMT in a good combo dept. We back a full paid dept. as well as they back us. Remember our 6 brothers who gave their all...I do not believe there was a separation of volunteers and careers at the service. The minority in this profession is us "professionals" so called. Call, volunteer, paid or non paid we are supposed to be one family. Lets not be one family only when a tragedy occurs.
Lt. Frank Coombs
04-26-2000, 10:57 PM #21fireaterFirehouse.com Guest
I think that MVFD is right the only diference is the paycheck
Stay Safe and remember to put the wet stuff on the red stuff
04-27-2000, 04:42 PM #22CaptstanmFirehouse.com Guest
I agree...you do not have to be paid to be professional. In fact...I tell the volunteers that I instruct that if they think their volunteer Department is not a professional one, then they should get out. Most career people who bash volunteers do so for unknown and mostly fabricated reasons. Additionally, most of them have been volunteers (thats how they started) and soon forget where they came from. Sometimes it is sad.
I have been on both sides. I have seen some high class volunteer departments that put career departments to shame.. and vice versa!
05-04-2000, 12:04 AM #23PifdDepChiefFirehouse.com Guest
I whole heartly agree. We are all the same. The professionalism isn't in a title, it's in the person. Whether career or volunteer, doesn't matter. Like some I started as a vol. within our department and through luck I was able to move on to a paid position. I am a Aux. officer for the Local sheriff's dept. so I still do volunteer. Strange as it seems, You can volunteer to carry a gun. We all know that those that still volunteer do it because they love the work and even those of us that are career love the work, I believe there is a big difference (some will agree and some might not). When a person earns a living day in and day out, you look at a profession different then when you are doing it because you truly love what you are doing. Please don't get me wrong, I as most of you probably love what we do, but there are those that get into the Fire service not as a career but as a job, We have all seen them and probably we work with a few of them. Those are the ones that usually will bad mouth the Vol. for what they do.
05-26-2000, 03:32 AM #24Brian DunlapFirehouse.com Guest
I Also have had the chance to be on both sides and have found the relationship between career and volunteers to be good and bad...There are some career guys out there who forget where they came from when they volunteered and think now that they get a paycheck they are the best of the best !! Yet, Most of the career F.F. I have come across will go out of the way to be curtious and work side by side with volunteers...Yes we are all professionals when the alarm sounds or the whistle blows.... FIRE my fellow brothers and sisters doesn't care if you get a paycheck or not....
05-26-2000, 08:06 PM #25DavesNavyFirehouse.com Guest
A little late on this, but in our area we have many volunteer cops. Based on their level of training they have full police powers, weapons and patrol cars. See, FF's aren't the only ones. I have to say that I'm glad to see a more reasoned approach to this issue than one finds in the chat rooms.
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