1. #1
    WRENCH
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post contract give backs

    I just read something froman online newspaper that disturbs me very much. Too start I,am not trying to critisize those involved, belittle them or come off as superior or gloat at what we have as oppossed to them.
    Not knowing the background or details it seems that a dept in the south gave up 24/72 work shifts in exchange for 24/48 shifts and
    meager pay raise so that the city could open a third station and not have to hire 8 more firefighters.I can sympathisize at there fustrations at not having a contract for 5 years but 24/72 is highly coveted in the northeast.What the city is giving them is,nt squat for what there giving up. It maybe callous but being able to afford the manning for a new station is the cities problem. Obviously there is a need for the station or it would not have been proposed. I would hope that they recognize that that they are going to be working harder, more area more runs with the same existing manpower.The are probably undermanned now, and willhave to man more equiptment with less staffing. Based on the article I can see problems as the vote was only 8-5 to accept thios proposal. From experience you don,t want to be making major contractrual changes like this with a slim majority. I would like to here from others on on this and the general subject of givebacks during negotiations. PS, my opinion ,don,t give back nothin you already have.

  2. #2
    Smoke286
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    u r quite right wrench, give em nothin' and take em nowhere is my motto

  3. #3
    Captain Gonzo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    Contract negotiations are a basically a compromise...both sides want everything, they agree to something and almost everyone goes home happy.

    My Local recently ratified a new contract that gives us a 9% raise (3% a year for 3 years), an increase in staffing and a $50 a year increase in our clothing allowance for each year of the contract.

    Our concession was to change the wording of our personal days...not a bad trade off!!!

    ------------------
    And on the eighth day...God created Firefighters!
    Captain Gonzo


    [This message has been edited by Captain Gonzo (edited 01-05-2001).]

  4. #4
    Bleve_30
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I would be curious to find out what else they got. From the information in the post there has to be more to it. I agree, it doesn't make any sense to agree to work more.

    Mike

  5. #5
    Profireman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I'll agree that negotiations are a compromise..but having just gone through mediation and arbitration on this very issue....I'd be curious to know if possibly the city wasn't holding something over their head (ie..privatize,restructuring into a volunteer fire dist...etc..)

    It makes absolutely no sense to go from 24/72 (42 hr work week) to a
    24/48 (which could be anywhere from 48-56 hours depending on kelly's) without getting AT least a 20% raise...and thats lowballing it.
    Plus you'd need other perks due to the fact that you'd probably eliminate any Overtime you are currently creating by switching from a 4 batt system to a 3 batt system unless you could slip a minimum manning clause into there which is 25% higher than your On Duty personnel with the 3 batt system.

    scott

    My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my department or the professional organizations and associations to which I belong




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  6. #6
    WRFD818
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I would agree with the posts. But if you decrease from 4 shifts to 3 shifts your on duty strength increases as long as the City does not decrease it.

    Profireman don't you guys work a 10/14 shift still?

    By going to 24/48 you are only working 2 more days in a 28 day period.

    We work 24on/24off/24on/24off/24on/96off. Equals 9 days in 28 day period. With no kelly days off. We work the 10th day at 1 1/2 pay. I like this schedule gives me time for a part time job.

  7. #7
    WRENCH
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    AsI said before there maybe a few things that we do not know. From what I read they were only getting a 2000 dollar raise. To wfrd, yes it is only 2 days but remember on 24's that is 48 hrs times 12 months , lots more hrs. They only gained 1 more man. This move was to open a third station. as I said manning is the cities problem, there must be a need or they wouldnt want one so the call level must be there to justify a paid station
    especially doing ems.If the city realy feels that the third station is necesarythe will find a way to fund it. these guys .
    are going to be doing a lot more work for the same pay with less rest.
    All they are doing is redistrbuting the manpower.It sounds like they are still grossly undermanned.

  8. #8
    FitzBFDT2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Only 2 days more??? Check this out.

    If you average it out , not including vacations or days off, this is how much more working a 56 hour workweek compares to a 42 hour workweek.

    A 56 hour workweek gives you 2912 hours per year while a 42 hour workweek gives you only 2184 hours per year. This is a difference of 728 hours per year.

    Over the cousre of an average 25 year career, this comes out to a brother working the 56 hour workweek working 18,200 hours more than a brother working a 42 hour workweek. For me to "catch up" to as many hours as the brother working the 56's, I would have to work an additional 8.333 years to come up with the same amount of hours he worked during his 25 year career.

    No thanks...I will keep my 24/72, 42 hour workweek.

    Stay safe brothers.


    ------------------
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry, bfdt2@fitzhenry.com
    Firefighter, Truck Co. 2
    City of Bayonne (NJ) FD
    www.bayonnenj.org/fire/

  9. #9
    Profireman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    BINGO... You've got it Fitz.

    I've been through all the possible scenarios and you are correct.

    ____________________________________________


  10. #10
    Profireman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Yes WRFD..we are still on 10/14 = 42 hour work week

    You aren't actually working a true 24/48,
    the 24/96 you get is no different than a kelly every 5th shift...which is somewhere from 42-44 hour work week off the top of my head.


    Only because the city hired a lawyer from Chicago and paid him over $50,000 to lose the arbitration to our local, which had no lawyer..spent 10% of what the city spent..and we STILL received a 10.5% raise.




    I love this shift...
    Fri,Sat,Sun off every other week..
    Can work my part time 5 days a week once a month..@ least 3 days all others.


    ------------------
    My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my department or the professional organizations and associations to which I belong


    ------------------
    Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, 227, any and
    all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to any of the above address(s) is
    subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500.00 USD.
    Emailing denotes acceptance of these terms.

    [This message has been edited by Profireman (edited 02-21-2001).]

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