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  1. #61
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    I think what some of you may be forgetting is that this isn't about that fact that this is your job .... or that you are doing this because you enjoy it .... The Fire Service is about people's lives. And the people the Fire Service exists for is the people you serve.

    This isn't about any one of us, this is about the service we are providing. If you are not concerned about what you are doing, and taking pride in what you are doing, then you should just leave.

    This applies to career, volunteer, per-diem, whatever.

    Tom
    The Fire Service ... where there is a right way, a wrong way, the Chief's way, the Deputy's way, the Captain's way, the Lieutenant's way ....


  2. #62
    Forum Member DrInferno's Avatar
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    Brother Bishop you beat me too it!!!!! My sentiments exactly. Sounds like someone has an axe to grind with the career fire service. I hope he doesn't manage his people with the same tactics as he speaks in here. Belittleing someone only breeds animosity and does absolutely nothing in the way of creating a positive environment to work in. Could this person be the chief due to his skills or a popularity contest? Don't matter either way as attitude like that will leave you with no one to manage or your ***** at the curb. Oh by the way when we are "sitting around the office" we can get out the door in under 60 seconds too, hell we can be on scene in under 3 minutes for a majority of our responses.

  3. #63
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    I'm going to chime in here and agree with FP&LS Guy and dr. inferno ~ Look ladies and gentlemen we are all in this together whether we volunteer to do it such as I do or collect a salary for it. ~ We need to drop this "us vs. them" or "them vs. us" attitude and just go out there and get the job done ! As far as who takes orders from whom ? thats pretty simple....Who evers local the Fire is in {Career Department or Volunteer Department} holds the command. Meaning that if the fire is in the Career Local the Volunteers report to to the Career I.C. and take orders from there and if the Fire is in Volunteer Local the Career Staff including chief officers {If they respond} report to to the Volunteer I.C. and take orders from there....Thats that plain and simple and either group that doesn't like it take their fire engine and go home. We are All part of one Family here....THE FIREFIGHTERS OF AMERICA FAMILY....So this fighting back and forth Bull Sh** needs to stop once and for all.....Web-Team ought to shut this thread down it's out of control which I saw begin to happen from the start !

    ***The Opinions expressed here are strictly my own and do not reflect those of the Department to which I am a Member ! ***

    Stratford Fire Co. # 1.."Any Job ~ Any Place ~ Any Time"

    Check us Out www.stratfordfire.com

  4. #64
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    I have never posted in here as I am Vol. but I would like to say not all Vol. depts. go out and by new rigs cause they have a scratch. We have mid 70's Macks that aren't gong anywhere for awhile. Paid vs. Vol. it is a stupid arguement, we all fight fire, we all do our best to save lives and property, and how many of you paid guys started as Vol., though I do believe Vol. have one advantage over SOME paid guys as we do it cause we love to again SOME paid guys do it for money. Though most of us would love to be paid some of us don't have the luxury. Dosen't mean we don't have the talent the skill or the exerience.

    One question though: If a paid guy for some reason quits and decides he wants to be Vol. later in life does that make him any less of a F.F.?

    It seems too me and I may be way off on this, but just like an electrical union, U.A.W. or anything else they are against anything that is not union.

    I don't care who is in charge as long as they treat me with the respect they treat their people with.

    I also would like to thank you for allowing me to post in your forum.
    Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

  5. #65
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    Red face

    Cough-bull****-Cough....I'm better than you, were better than them.... Did the fire get put out? Did a life get saved? Yes? Ok, jobs done, shut-up already. What the hell is the point your trying to get at? There is none, someone ALWAYS has to whine and complain!

  6. #66
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Regardless of volunteer or paid staff, PROVIDED the person in charge has the qualification/certification to do what they're doing, then let them.

    If a more qualified person comes onto scene, then hand over, or mutually run the scene and learn from each other.

    Theres so many barriers put up by people when it comes to paid vs volunteering- we've all got a job to do. Do it!
    Luke

  7. #67
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    Holy cow. You guys act like a bunch of children on a playground fighting over who gets to play with the ball.

    Volenteers spending money like trees? Sure. Right. My local emergency services unit has a budget of less then 2000.00 a year right now. The local career, metro department, buys a new truck EVERY YEAR. The arguement goes both ways. You can point and whine and say stuff, but the fact of the matter is, it goes both way guys.

    My volenteer fire chief has 20 years of firefighting experiance. My career chief has 25+ years of experiance on the fire ground. Who would I want to command a fire scene? Either! They're both firefighters, both have gone to the same fire classes, both have the same certifications as required by state policy, both are old farts who can grunt and point at the burning building and say "FIRE!".

    Grow up, yeesh. The toy ball is -mine-!

  8. #68
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    This debate will never be settled, In my opinion the problem is that most volunteer firefighters have no idea what it is like to work in a large professional fire dept in an urban setting. So they relate the paid argument instead to the small sub-urban paid or composite depts in their area. To them, they seem to do a similar job so they resent any implied feelings of superiority put forth by these paid firefighters. As for the reaction of many paid firefighters when they read here there are situations out there where Volunteers can be in command of paid firefighters, well you may excuse their incredulity if you realize that in many cases a less then active volunteer might have to go 20 years before amassing the experience a Professional F/F with an urban Dept might get in one.

  9. #69
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    My, my, my.... how the brotherhood of fire fighters divides when it comes to who's in charge. In my area, we have a standardized SOP about this issue. It states:

    "Whenever a company from a neighboring district is summoned to the mutual aide of another, the absolute incident commander shall be an officer from the district which requested assistance."

    And just in case you are not familiar with Greene County, Ohio, only 2 out of 14 districts are fully paid, 1 is paid plus part-time, and the other 11 departments are part-time with volunteers. So as you can see, such an occurance is very common.

  10. #70
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    Engine 1321 it works the same way in my FD. But we dont usually run w/ the career FD's. They will call other career from farther away than call a VFD. We responded once, when an airliner took a nose dive in the city. I guess they just needed all those rescue tools the we have. But to quote a career Captain I met at the NYS Fire Academy "Firefighters are like plumbers, there are some good ones and some bad ones."
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  11. #71
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    Cool

    What ever happened with "firefighter?" That's what we do and that's what we are. It all depends on the person and not the $$$$. You career guys, most of you were volunteers at one point. You volunteer guys, you fight the fire right? I lived in a county in Florida where there was a big problem with career vs volunteer. That career department was volunteer for many years and only a few years ago went paid. All those members who were picked up to the paid force all became total jerks. Firehouse I believe shouldn't even have the Career/Paid and Volunteer sections. That is not helping the battle here at all. Who ever made the statement of beating you chest, and what a good job you for free or what not needs to stop beating his chest. Yes this is a career/paid forum, but it has gone sour like most things. If you all honestly have problems with it, then do your communities a favor and get out of the fire business. If you only care about the pay check or the free service you offer over getting paid then you really got to spend some time reflecting why you are in the bizz still. I remember in EMT they said get out of the biz if you were burning out or were not providing your 110% care for the patient. If you're not giving your all for you community, god I hope you're not in mine. I love my city and its poor drivers and I provide them with the best my team and myself can.

    [ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: FF139Engine12 ]

    Feet Don't Fail Me Now!

  12. #72
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    Red face

    Wow....
    I sure hope the public doesn't read this forum.
    I remember taking my standards class, no one there asked if anyone involved was a Vol. or paid firefighter. I didn't see different goals or tasks set up with signs that said vol. or paid on it. Last year at a meeting on the state level for IC no one asked are you a vol. or paid officer. Hmm maybe the level of training and experience could have something to do with who should be in charge. To step back, look at the situation and make and informed decision at how it should be attacked or not to attack ???
    Professional is designated by the way you perform your duties, work with others, and accomplish your goals. At true professional knows when to step back and allow a more qualified person to take charge and not look at it as a personal insult. Take your time and learn from that person so that you may be the more qualified officer in the future. There are several firefighters in this forum that if in my command would never make it up the ladder of officer training if I was aware of these ego's and mental blocks about the fact that someone receives a paycheck therefore they are more qualified to make a decision. Your thinking may just get one of your people or yourself killed someday. I personally will invite the input from any qualified person at the scene and then make my decision from that point, when I have all the information. I surely would never discredit the informed opinion of a vol. officer or specialist just because they did not receive a paycheck. Hopefully with maturity and experience you too will become a "professional" but some of the opinions expressed here surely do fall short of that definition. Your unwillingness to work with others in the field due to monetary retribution is definitely a shortfall in your character. If you respond to a mutual aid situation and bring this attitude with you, then you would most likely do a better job by refusing to respond. The citizen or community that needs your help will definitely not be getting a full commitment by yourself or the people you lead into the situation if you already are predisposed to this way of thinking on your way into the call.
    The comments made about discipline and lack of it in a Vol. dept as compared to a paid department are also obviously the remarks made by and ignorant person as well. In today’s world of liability and lawsuits no one is exempt from retaliation from a person that feels you did not do everything within your power to due your duty to protect either their property or them selves. The courts don't care if you are paid or Vol. either.
    I understand this is a great country, and yes you are more then welcome to your opinions and idea's but please leave them in the locker when you start your shift. If you experience a situation that you feel could be handled in a safer, more effective manor then speak with the person in charge, but spare other firefighters from your misinformed prejudice opinions and maybe open your eyes and ears. You may just find you will be a better firefighter and really can call yourself a professional without dragging us all down with you.

  13. #73
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    [quote] Wow....
    I sure hope the public doesn't read this forum.



    Ding, Ding, Ding..... We have a winner!!! Someone who realized that this mindless bantering back and forth on a debate that will never be settled and more importantly that the fire doesn't care about does nothing but hurt our image to the public who is free to read this nonsense at anytime. Yes, the same public who's tax dollars pay the salaries for the career guys and buy the "$900,000" ladder truck that someone accused the vollies of getting.

    Let it go!! Did we learn nothing on 9-11?? Did we not learn that regardless of FF (career or vol.), accountant, stock broker or tourist we can all be wiped out by one f'ing wacko!

  14. #74
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    HHVFD2:
    I work for a strictly 100% paid department and we are enroute with in a minute of dipatch about 95% of the time. We have to be and yes it is possible. So I don't know where you are coming up with it is hard to go enroute with in 3 minutes. Because it gets done every single day.

    And the thing with vollies and career on fire scenes.... first of all, if you are on a vollies fire scene and and another department,( we will call them department"X") whether it is paid or volunteer comes to help you out. The person in charge of department "X" is ultimately responsible for his own men. So he needs to decide what is safe and not safe for his men.

    If the incident commander of the scene tells department "X" to ventilate on a roof that is unstable, department "X"'s commander has every right to say "NO, WE WILL NOT VENT" and should. But should tell the IC his reasons for doing so.

    This may or may not be helpful at all, but I tried. God Bless and be safe to you all.
    IAFF Local 2270

  15. #75
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    This is like beating a dead horse...the first few wacks may be theraputic but after a while all you get is tired. This post has been on here since June...LET IT GO...

    FyredUp
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  16. #76
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    Wow!!

    I didnt realize that career FF's and volunteer FF's were suposed to hate each other!!!
    Mark Carlson


    firefighter's find 'em hot and leave 'em wet!

  17. #77
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    I didn't realize Volunteers never understood the difference

  18. #78
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    What difference?

    Stay Safe

  19. #79
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    I rest my case

  20. #80
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Smoke286:

    What was your point? And nice non-answer to the simple question asked.

    By the way I am a career FF in a medium sized city and a volly where I live. To me the only difference is the pay. Being professional has nothing to do with geting a paycheck and everything to do with how you approach the job. I know career FF who think a tough day is when you make them get out of the recliner. I also know volly's who won't go if its "inconvenient". On the other hand I know career FF that go to every class and seminar they can even if they don't get paid and in fact have to pay for the class themselves. On that same note I know vollys that after working 8 or 10 hours still show up for training and also go to those same classes, many times paying themselves.

    The endless squabbles over this topic are becoming pathetic. Work within your system, respect your brothers and sisters both career and volunteer, and get over it.

    FyredUp
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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