1. #1
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    Default 3 shift 10's and 14's versus 4 shift 24's?

    Any opinion on going from a four shift 24 hour shift to a 10 and 14 3 shift system? If you are ona 10/14 tell us about it.

  2. #2
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    dont even entertain the thought. Here in the northeast 24s are to die for. Why would you want to give up having to work only one weekend day at a time or having to work only one day of a holiday .ie either christmas eve or the day not both. And on and on

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    We have to entertain the thought. The mayor has shown the council how he can increase staffing per company per 1710 to 4 from 3 per company, reduce the load on each firefighter on an ambulance and reduce staffing costs by 41%. Odds are, alot of you will be seeing this in the future after the international city/county managers association meeting.

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    We've been on 24 hour shifts for over 20 years now. All of a sudden, due to a few letters from some disgruntled firefighters on the EMS side, the Fire Chief is seriously considering any other shift other that 24 hours.

    The few claim that they are falling asleep at the wheel on runs from having to make so many over a 24 hour period.

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    Greetings,

    On my job, we work a four platoon system. It encompasses 2, 10 hour days, 2 14 hour nights, then 4 days off. They use to work the 24's many years ago, but no one on the job now use to do it.

    From what I gather, there had been talk on my job several years ago of going to a shift of 24 hours on, 24 hours off, 24 hours on, 5 days off. That would keep the four platoons intact.

    But what I find of interest is that your Mayor is actually taking the NFPA 1710 rule into consideration. But a couple of questions with his approach to the shift changes. With a "41%" reduction of expenses, is he laying off guys? What does your contract say? If he can show that he is providing a safer work environment WITHOUT laying off guys, you could have problems if your shift schedule is not in the contract.

    Also, is he "really" concerned about increasing staffing on the pieces due to NFPA 1710 and safety, or is this an excuse to increase the staffing on the pieces as "extra" men (i.e. reduce or eliminate OT if staffing is up thus the 41% reduction in the budget) Just food for thought.

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    About 20 years ago our Dept went from 24/72 to 10/14. It never even lasted a year and cost the city a bundle apparently, they were glad to put us back to 24/72 .But it was a bit before my time, I dont really know why it was so expensive, someone said they incurred a lot of OT

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    We went to 24 hr shift a couple of years ago. We were on 10's and 14's, with a 4 platoon setup. We are now 24 on 24 off 24 on 5 days off.
    Needless to say once we got onto 24's we never went back.

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    My hometown dept just went to full time, 3 platoons working 10/14. They are the only full time dept in the state of Michigan that I know of on that schedule. It works out to 3 10hr days/3 14 hr nights/3 days off. There are guys I know that work for depts that may lay them off, yet they won't apply here due to the schedule. The union says they were concentrating on hiring people, and to worry about the schedule later, they're going to fight for 24s later.

  9. #9
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    Work 2 tens, 2 fourteens , 4 days off, for a 42 hour work week on an 8 week cycle. Hope to stay with it. Used to work 24s they sucked. Opens the door for adminstration to go back to 56 hour weeks.
    Some guys want the 24s in the next contract, but they've never had to work them.
    The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little time.

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    Our dept was originally set up (1800s) as five days on, one off. Guys went home at staggered times to eat meals with their families. Then thay went to one on, one off.
    After that came 24 on, 48 off. Then came 10/14. Two 10's, two 14's, three days off. Only went on for 10 months. Nobody could remember when to come to work. Only the old timers were around for that. Now we work 24 on 48 off six times then take five days off. Its a three week cycle. Been that way since the 1970's. Works out to 48 hrs a week. Everybody has what we call a Kelly Day. Mine is Tuesday. I never work on Tuesdays. Every three weeks I am off from Sat til the following Friday. There is no better schedule I can imagine.
    Down Side - My wife has never told the Kids I'm at WORK, she tells them I'm at the firehouse!

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    Here is the story where I work. 3 days on, 3 days off, 3 nights on, 3 off. 42 hrs. a week, 4 platoon system. Overtime as follows, days ot before regular days, nights ot before regular nights. If you pick up the last night for ot, you can work 4 nights in a row or in the summer even 5 or 6 in a row. 'Trow in a couple of busy nights, not uncommon, and by the 4th or 5th night, you are really dragging. This also goes for days, too. If I wanted to work 5 or 6 days in a row, I would have gotten a real job. (Just kidding about that!) Now I know I can always say "no" to overtime, but let's get real. That is how Mrs. Leroy gets to stay home with the kids, instead of working, daycare, blah blah blah. A lot of the younger guys, who live out of town, myself included, want to try 24's, 24 on, 3 off, to see how it works. Eventually, hopefully, our wishes will be enough to override the prevailing wishes of the membership. Several depts. in the area are on this schedule, and the guys there say they love it, and would never go back. The only drawback I can see is that your vacation time is counted in hours instead of shifts. Logistical and record keeping nightmare, in my opinion. Any input from the gallery?

    Ladder 2 Leroy
    Leroy140 Fairfield, CT Local 1426

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    It's pretty easy math to see that 4 platoons with 3 man engines could make 3 platoons with 4 man engines.

    You can thank our beloved IAFF for fighting for the right to work 16 more hours a week than the average joe, before you get overtime.

    If I had to work more than 42 hours a week, I'd definitely want to work 24h shifts. If the guys are falling asleep at the wheel on the ambulance, maybe EMS should be provided by a third service, where they can happily work 40h weeks, and 8-12h shifts.

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    Do you realize that by going from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hourwork week(not counting vacation time off), that:
    1. You will work 14 extra hours per week
    2. You will work 728 extra hours per year
    3. You will work 18,200 extra hours in a 25 year career

    Four Shift System
    1. 42 hours per week
    2. 2184 hours per year
    3. 54600 hours per 25 year career

    Three Shift System
    1. 56 hours per week
    2. 2912 hours per year
    3. 72800 hours per 25 year career

    Let me put it this way. If after 25 years you and I decide to retire. I would have to work an extra 8.33 years to catch up to the amount of hours you worked during your 25 year career. Sorry, I will stick with my 42 hour workweek.

    Oh, by the way...what is to stop the mayor from reducing your manning to 3 man engine and ladder companies after he has convinced you to change to the 3 shift system. Then you are right back where you started. What's next???...a Two shift system at 72 hours per week.

    Look at all your options before you embrace anything the mayor or council brings to you. Remember they are lookingout for their interests first. Be safe.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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    ....what is to stop the mayor from reducing your manning to 3 man engine and ladder companies after he has convinced you to change to the 3 shift system. ...

    Already happened. Next is station closing...

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    Hey Fitz.....did your wife do the math cause you can't add 2+2??
    And change your name for Pete's sake stick man.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF

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    Well lets be blunt! Mayors and administrators do what ever they feel like doing.If some guy in a suit calling himself a "manpower consultant"walks through the door look out!He will show the city how to do it and make more than any of the guys on your department would in 5 years.
    If you dont stand for what you want they will run right over you.Get involved by going to city council meetings and the like.Maybe they will accept your input.But more than likely they will want a profesional opinion and go the consultant route(my opinion here is they have no more clue than the city council or mayor)Good luck

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    Try working

    24 on 24 off x3 then 4 days off.

    It amounts to 10 days a month, a 4 dayer off every week.

    It is sweet.

  18. #18
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    Try working 24/72's. I will work 8 24 hour shifts in August and only 7 in September. The 42 hour workweek is by far the way you would want to go or stay if you work them already.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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    Amen to that Fitz

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