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  1. #1
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    Default COMPOSITE DEPARTMENTS

    We have a composite department. How do both groups get along in other depts? Any suggestions? Not that we want them doing our job.
    f442


  2. #2
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    Say, are you from Newfoundland? I would of sent you an e-mail, but your address is blocked

  3. #3
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    We?
    Them?
    Our job?

    Try the mirror, the problem maybe closer than you think.

  4. #4
    Forum Member daysleeper47's Avatar
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    Composite? are we talking combination?

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    Default

    Originally posted by TriTownship600:
    We?
    Them?
    Our job?

    Try the mirror, the problem maybe closer than you think.
    Amen brother!

  6. #6
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    I understand your question unlike others who throw opinions around. What is the makeup of your dept? If your dept is volunteer controlled then the situation can became very bad. Working as a professional in a volunteer dept can be the worst conditions for a career firefighter. Try to keep everybody together and on the same page. You will need this unity someday!! Push for a Career Chief and get involved politically.
    PS: I find it funny that so many volunteers read and post in the career forum. I guess it should be a complement, but 95% of the time the posts are just crap. Feel free to bash the career service in the volunteer forum!

  7. #7
    Forum Member DrInferno's Avatar
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    Originally by TKRZM

    PS: I find it funny that so many volunteers read and post in the career forum. I guess it should be a complement, but 95% of the time the posts are just crap. Feel free to bash the career service in the volunteer forum!

    RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!! These wackers don't get it that whatever the union gets ( i.e. N.F.P.A. staffing levels, protective clothing standards) benefits them as well. As for throwing the opinions around the "look in the mirror one is the best," imagine me going into Tritownship 600's job and saying "I'm here to work for free today and everyday so all you paid guys go home." Think that would fly? I doubt it. So in essense if he would put himself in FF442's shoes and look again at the question initially posed I think the reflection in the mirror would look like a hypocrite.

  8. #8
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    Hmmmmm...vollies posting in the career forum?
    Damn those wanna bees! i seem to notice a number of career posts in our lowly volly forum.What did the pot call the kettle?

  9. #9
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    Hold on a minute!

    I was not trying, or did I make any statements in an attempt to bash any career fire service personnel.

    I was only pointing out that FF442 will never see the forest through the trees with that sort of attitude. If you feel that I did bash all career fire personnel, please point it out to me.

    I don't have any problem with career fire departments. They are an absolute must in a larger community. If you read some of my other posts, you would see this.

    As for doing my job for free.... I couldn't give a hoot, you can have it. I will find something else to do. I don't feel anyone owes me anything.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Bleve30's Avatar
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    Yes, tritownship600, I felt that it was a shot at career firefighters. As far as working together in a composite department, it can be done. We are very fortunate in the sense that we have a very good working relationship with our auxiliary members. They have an understanding of what is expected of them. We have a policy of hiring from our auxiliary department when an opening comes up and there is a qualified individual. Our auxiliary members are not trained to do interior attack, extrication, etc., nor do they drive any of the apparatus. The auxiliary members show their support for the full-time staff every couple of years by addressing a letter to the Chief stating that if there is any reduction in manpower due to lay-offs that they will turn in their pagers. It is my opinion that hiring from the auxiliaries is good for morale because they know that if they put their time in, and are interested in a full-time job, that they have a pretty good chance of getting one.
    These are my views and opinions and do not reflect any of my affiliations.

  11. #11
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    Bleve_30 it sounds that it works well for your department.I wish it was the same here but all the auxiliaries in our department want to do our job and don't care if they step on your toes.We have already lost one full-time position due to the auxiliaries ( to whom they wish to be called volunteers who get paid for fire calls,training and an honorarium.
    I don't think that we will get that job back.If we could get something developed like your department then things maybe different in our department.
    f442

  12. #12
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    Hey TriTownship, seems to me that perhaps it is you who have the perception problem. FF442 is talking about a specific situation and a specific set of problems, you however are making sweeping generalizations,and dare I say it ill informed ones.

  13. #13
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    Gentlemen, if I may interject my 95% volunteer crap for just a few minutes. I have been a member of a combination dept. before and we found that it worked very poorly when the two groups were divided, as we are almost always are here in this sitting. But once the governing board sat down and appointed a committee to look into the problem we found that the answer was given to us by the founding father’s of America, when they wrote ”all men being created equal”. That being said the recommendation was to train everyone the same, treat everyone the same, and so on, and so on …

    Bleve stated that “Our auxiliary members are not trained to do interior attack, extrication, etc., nor do they drive any of the apparatus. “ Then in other words all they are is gofers? Although I like the fact that yall hire from within your dept Bleve but wouldn’t you want that new hire to be trained if he/she had so many years experience as an auxiliary member? Just a thought.

    What it all boils down to be this title that man kind has to put on every thing. Why can we not just call ourselves firefighters and be done with it? Just cause someone gets paid to do something and the guy next to him does not does not make one better than the next. Sure yall get better training than we volunteers, and more of it. But that comes down to money but we do what we can with what we got. And in the past 20 years I don’t have any complaints about the training that has been offered, as most of the time there has been paid guys in the same class as me.

    As for me I am no longer a member of a combination dept as my family had to move due to employment requirements. But we have returned to the area and the dept I spoke of earlier is a neighboring dept to the dept I now am a member of so I still work with those fellows that I knew years ago. And yes most of the SOGs that the committee I was part of to help with the us and them trouble is still in place. The biggest one being to do away with the title’s paid guys or volunteers the whole dept is a group of FIREFIGHTERS dedicated to their community. The way it should be!
    The hardest fire to put out is the one that can be avoided by educating the public!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    Comittee does not sound like a very good way to run a fire dept, but what the heck, I could be wrong, never seen it done

  15. #15
    Junior Member Bleve30's Avatar
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    Let me clarify a few points for you sloepoke1, our auxiliaries are trained to use scba, primarily to relieve for hot spot control, and mop-up. The auxiliary members are given familiarization training in a lot of other areas, including suppression, extrication, high angle rope rescue, etc. The biggest stumbling block would probably be that they are only available for training on average of 8 to 10 hours per month. It would take 104 months (just over 8.5 years)for a auxiliary firefighter in our department to receive the equivalent training that a probationary full-time firefighter receives in six months from being on the job. There is only so much you can cram into 10 hours per month and you have to keep in mind that the auxiliary members have families to feed and spend time with also. The trend these days is to spend more time with family and that is making it harder everywhere for fire departments to maintain a core group of volunteers. (I realize that there may be some departments that are the exception to the current trend so please don't e-mail me and tell me how great your own departments are, because I am sure that they are.) I department has had its own problem maintainingg volunteers at times, especially when the working relationship was not so good.

    I realize that there are firefighters out there that can not understand the concept of having volunteers in their halls. We are in a position that we need them. Our tax base is not large enough to have a complete full-time department, the only other options would be a complete volunteer department. It is the opinion of the citizens and the politicians in our City that the second option would not offer as good of a service. Not because they would not be as competent, but they would not be out the door within a minute of the call.

    OK, way off track now. Our auxiliaries are good. They know what there job description is and perform up to our expectations most of the time.
    These are my views and opinions and do not reflect any of my affiliations.

  16. #16
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    “Sure yall get better training than we volunteers, and more of it. But that comes down to money but we do what we can with what we got. “
    Sorry I did forget about the time factor, but then I have been a volunteer for most of my career.

    “Our auxiliary members are not trained to do interior attack, extrication, etc., nor do they drive any of the apparatus.”
    “The auxiliary members are given familiarization training in a lot of other areas, including suppression, extrication, high angle rope rescue, etc.”



    Now I am just a little confused. These two statements came from two different post of Bleve_30’s and they contradict each other, to a point. When you say familiarization training in extrication is that just showing what each tool is or do you actually train them how to use the equipment?

    “There is only so much you can cram into 10 hours per month and you have to keep in mind that the auxiliary members have families to feed and spend time with also.”

    As the Training Officer of my dept. I know how difficult it is to get volunteers to get the necessary training that is needed. Try to get a group of volunteers to give up an entire weekend with the family to get to training, the way some of us do twice a year. I am not saying that family is not important. My family comes before the fire service but I still find time to get the extra training.

    Bleve_30 I am glad that your dept has a good working atmosphere and hope that yall can keep that relationship going through the rough times as well. FF442 asked if anyone had been in this situation before and this was the answer that we found worked for the dept. of which I was a member, and was just trying to help out a fellow firefighter.
    The hardest fire to put out is the one that can be avoided by educating the public!

  17. #17
    Junior Member Bleve30's Avatar
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    sloepoke1, we teach them what the tools are, where they are used, and how they work. When they are working at a scene with us they need to know the dangers involved and what they can expect to happen.

    Do you dedicate two complete days twice a year to training? If so, what kind of training? Live burns? That may be something we could look into.
    These are my views and opinions and do not reflect any of my affiliations.

  18. #18
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    Bleve_30 here in our area the local Chief’s Association puts on a training school that offers a wide variety of different classes twice a year, once in the spring and again in the fall. And yes, live burns are sometimes part of the curriculum, when structures are available. When that is not an option then they use the county’s training center and the concrete building designed for such use, for the more experienced firefighters. The classes offered range from covering the most basics of firefighting such as ABC extinguishers and PPE to the more in depth subjects such as Meth Lab scenes.

    For the rest of the year each dept does in house training. As for me I do 3 hours minimum per week and more if I have time on the weekends if the “guys” request it. Also there is different training going on throughout the state that any of our members can attend. So as you can see there is training here for the volunteer if he wants it. Now I am not saying that volunteers get as much training as paid guys but my dept trains side-by-side with paid guys and everyone learns from each other. We feel this way is best suited for our situation as when the need arises for mutual aid and the paid dept is called everyone is on the same page from the start. This is what works for us. If what you described works best for you and yours then good job at finding your answer.


    [ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: sloepoke1 ]
    The hardest fire to put out is the one that can be avoided by educating the public!

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