Thread: Volunteer FF pay/renumeration
11-26-1999, 05:12 PM #1WTFD730Firehouse.com Guest
Volunteer FF pay/renumeration
I am an Asst. Chief of a small volunteer FD just outside Toledo,Ohio. I have 40 members with one station that protects 4,000 residents and averages 250 calls per year both fire and EMS.
Even though were volunteer we still recieve a small pay or renumeration for each run we respond to. Each member recieves $3.50 per call and drill attended. Also the officers on our dept. recieve a monthly administrative pay for there services other than emergency calls.
Chief: $450.00 per month+run pay
Asst. Chief: $90.00 per month+run pay
Captains: $30.00 per month+run pay
Firefighters: run pay only
I am sending out this post to all of you to compare what we make compaired to other volunteer departments across the nation. With today's busy life style, more work and family demands its getting tougher to do all that is required to be and run a volunteer department. I would like to get fair raises for all our members for the work they do.
If your volunteer department does get a pay per run (not hourly pay) could you please let me know. And also if your officers get an administrative pay I would like to know that also.
Washington Twp. FD
[This message has been edited by WTFD730 (edited November 27, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by WTFD730 (edited November 27, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by WTFD730 (edited November 29, 1999).]
11-26-1999, 08:18 PM #2DED1645Firehouse.com Guest
Not to change the subject, but I have family outside Toledo in Swanton. New Jersey does have some dept's that recieve a stipen for calls and a little something for a shift. Not hourly. I'll try to get info on those dept's in the area.
Presently Lindenwold,NJ(I'm not a member of any of this District's dept's.)
11-27-1999, 01:56 PM #3BVFDFirehouse.com Guest
Greetings from a few miles east! My dept. is just between Sandusky and Port Clinton. Anyway, this is how our pay break down works. All pay is per run:
1-a FF: $4.00
1-b FF: $.50 extra
1-c FF: $.50 extra
EMT-B: $1.00 extra
EMT-I: $.50 extra
We are in the process of updating to a medic squad, so the pay for that has not been determined yet. Each of these bonuses are added with all other applicable bonuses, so the top pay right now is $6.50 per run. The only administrative pay goes to the Chief, and is $300 per month. The Chief has talked about going to the council to get raises for everyone next year, to the tune of as much as $2.00 across the board. Since we get paid once a year (first week of Dec.), it makes for a nice X-mas bonus! Let me know if I can help you anymore! By the way, from the sound of it, your dept. is much larger than mine.
Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them
11-27-1999, 07:09 PM #4Fire207Firehouse.com Guest
I want to move to your area! We get $200 per year period. The Chief and Asst. get $250. We are located about 10 miles NW of Fort Wayne In.. We have 30 members.
"Bustin' Ours to save Yours"
11-29-1999, 12:37 PM #5NAMBONKFirehouse.com Guest
Why are volunteer fire companies paying any of their members anyway? I thought volunteer stood for no compensation. If you are recieving money to make calls, in my view that is a paid fire company.
11-29-1999, 05:42 PM #6S-22Firehouse.com Guest
Two years ago our Board of Trustees offered to pay the Volunteers per run. The Volunteers brought it to a vote. We unanimously turned it down! We told them we wanted them to spend it on equipment. Since then they have been much more agreeable to our requests. They have bought a CO detector and, paid for part of a thermal imager. They previously refused to fund either item!
I should say it is not my opinion, that pay per run does not have a place. It may have a place depending on the circumstances.
My dept. makes less than 50 runs per year. We do not routinely man the stations, and what they were offering wouldn’t pay for my gas. So here it doesn’t make sense.
I would like to hear from the departments that get paid per run. How many runs do you make a year? Do you man your stations?
3 out of 4 FF's are Volunteers!
11-29-1999, 08:48 PM #7FF5PKFirehouse.com Guest
I am a firefighter for a combination dept.Our city government pays it's volunteers $15 per call.This pay also goes for drills,college coursework,and any fire insurance rating work.This pay goes to the volunteer mainly for his/her usage of their personal vehicles.Our run district is the entire parish,which consists of 900+ square miles. So as one can see,getting some compensation does come in handy.
11-30-1999, 10:50 AM #8ChapCaptFirehouse.com Guest
Somehow I do not think "pay" and "volunteer" can be used in the same sentence.
My dept is in a suburb of NYC (30 miles north). We are lucky to serve a wealthy community and are well funded and have understanding, informed, cooperative commissioners. We have nice equipment and don't really lack anything we need. I chose to do this, did not ask for anything in return. I personally don't beleive we should receive a few hundred dollars a year to show up.
We do have LOSAP (length of service awards program) that kicks in at 65. After five years of service, you "earn" $25 per month for each year of service up to some maximum per month, which I forgot. For example if you spend 15 years in the department (and meet requirements every year) at age 65 you will receive a monthly check for $250. The payments start at age 65. Nice incentive, but the younger members think they will never see it. I am only 33 so it is of no benefit to me for another 22 years, who knows where I will be.
Why do some depts. pay per run or give the chiefs/officers stipends? Does this really attract members? Make them show up more?
Are you not then considered payed-on-call and not volunteer?
[This message has been edited by ChapCapt (edited November 30, 1999).]
12-01-1999, 12:38 PM #9mikeyFirehouse.com Guest
Nice post "NAMBONK"......you took the words right out of my mouth!
12-01-1999, 02:59 PM #10WhipFirehouse.com Guest
First of all what Chief Ron is asking for is a comparison of vollie depts. that offer compensation, not whether or not they should. I was a member of a dept. that offered no compensation, then I moved and joined one that happened to. All I could say was thank you. I didn't know any better, and I didn't question it. Also you need to look at how much is invested by your financing body. I'm sure its much less than it would be to fund a career dept. including payroll, benefits, comp, and overtime. I have read many topic ending posts that have nothing to do with what was asked or posted in the first place. This is why you are givin the option to "Start a New Topic".
Now to answer the question:
My dept receives money anually,about $7,000
Members are given 1 point per call or drill.
(2 points if drill is over 4 hrs.)
At the end of the fiscal year the top 20 responders recieve a check based on some secret formula. The top responder receives about $1200 and the number 20 responder receives about $100. No one complains and in my house especially at the end its almost like a race to see if you can move up a spot or two. It's fun and it get people up in the middle of the night for that BSM. It a shame that it takes money to do that but it's working.
I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, but we are hear to share ideas and discuss how we are the same or different, but not to be critcal of how each other operates.
12-01-1999, 04:32 PM #11ChapCaptFirehouse.com Guest
I am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong. It is a matter of interpretation of the meaning of paid/volunteer. If a dept. needs to offer some sort of stipend, benefit or pay to keep the members active then more power to them. I congratulate them for being innovative, recgonizing a problem and finding a cost effective, popular solution to their manpower issues.
12-01-1999, 11:04 PM #12colfiremanFirehouse.com Guest
To start off i come from a medium Canadian Dept.14000 residents,4sq miles.we have 5 paid members and 31 volunteer.the officers receive a yearly stipend between 450-600 per year depending on rank.This is for the extra meetings and responsibilities we endure.we do not "pay" our volunteers,however we belong to a fire association and we receive a grant in lieu.we just had a meeting last night re this issue on if we should compensate for traing(extended days).I personally would like to see the word volunteer mean something not just the old "whats in it for me attitude".however in these times when we demand more on these guys and extra time is rare we might have to change our thinking.
12-02-1999, 09:40 AM #13NAMBONKFirehouse.com Guest
I asked a question earlier in reference to how could a company be volunteer and there members recieve monatary incentives. This was not a kick in the behind for anyone it was just a question that I had. I have not heard or seen this kind of volunteer fire company. I was not trying to change the topic or was it meant to be negative towards anyone. Other post on the Firehouse.com fourm sites reflect that volunteers do it for free and not for the pay check. I see these type of companies as a paid by call type organization and not a VOLUNTEER organization. 400 buck a month for the Fire Chief is a part time job, and if the company is busy, firefighters can get a nice size check at the end of the year! Maybe I am a slight bit jealous that you can volunteer to get money. Thank. Have a nice day everyone.
12-04-1999, 10:41 AM #14Cap'n LFirehouse.com Guest
Ron, we are a paid/call department. We have 20 members and respond to about 60-75 calls/yr. We are paid $14.00/hr when on the fireground, $8.00/hr for meetings or training. The chief and assistants each receive a yearly pay.( I don't know the excact amount) We have 5 members that are also first responders or EMT's. We run 120-150 medical calls/yr. The first 3 years we were not paid for these runs, now we have been given a budget that will be split based on the total number of calls.(Each responder will be paid about $3.00/ call they respond to.) I hope this helps you out.
12-04-1999, 10:18 PM #15phyrngnFirehouse.com Guest
My department calls it a PVR or Personal Vehicle Reimbursement.
The Chief receives $600.00 per month, but he is considered a part-time employee and must put in a minimum of 16 hours per week administrative duty (paying bills, taking care of disciplinary problems [babysitting], etc.--if you ask me, $600 isn't enough for what he does).
Each of the three assistant Chiefs receive $125.00 a month.
Rescue and Training Captain receive $60.00 a month.
Three station Captains receive $50.00 a month.
Three station Lieutenants receive $35.00 a month.
Paramedics receive $20.00 for each duty shift that they cover (average $100 each per month.)
All personnel receive $5.00 per call and meeting that they attend.
We respond to approximately 225 runs per year and have around 4 meetings/drills per month.
12-06-1999, 11:59 AM #16kevinrFirehouse.com Guest
In response to NAMBONK, if not already done, our department does not "pay" our volunteers. However we do say that each firefighter will recieve a fuel/clothing reimbursment (spelling??). It does not amount to much, but it does help lower the cost. I know that I have purchased about 5 t-shirts because they got too dirty to use again.
Our firefighters are paid $10 per run/training (training is at least twice a month). We also max out at $400. Sometimes it is a good deal. Calls that last less than 30 minutes. Other times, a call last 12 hours.
We also use it as a bonus. You are asking for time away from family and friends. I cannot tell you the number of times I got called away from a dinner party to fight a fire or help someone having a heart attack.
12-06-1999, 04:28 PM #17StanCapFirehouse.com Guest
PAY?!!! What the heck is that?!!! My department and all surrounding departments are VOLUNTEER. We are paid nothing, zip, nada. No expenses, no pay per call, no pay per training session, nothing. You guys are very lucky. Count your blessings.
12-06-1999, 08:51 PM #18chazzoFirehouse.com Guest
Great topic, we've been going around with this topic for years. I'm an Asst. Chief in a town of about 2300 pop. and we run about 200- 250 calls a year(fire/ems). We currently have trainings once a week and require that each member pull a saturday shift once a month. We have 3 shifts (a,b,c, they consist of a capt. and 3-4 ff's, at least on of the 5 is an emt. We pay $10.00 for each training and $10.00 for each sat. shift. This amounts to around $50.00 per member a month. About 7 years ago we used to pay $10.00 per call, but around x-mas time we kept getting unknown brush fires, so that came to a screeching halt. The town hall considers our $50.00 a month as a reinbursment for gas a other expenses. We still bring the topic up a lot amd our ultimate goal is to be able to man a paid crew someday in the house, but until then we will continue to volunteer our services when needed. if you have any suggestions i would love to hear them. thank you and have a safe new years.
12-10-1999, 05:48 PM #19MFD3246Firehouse.com Guest
Our district covers 150 square miles and 7000 residents with 22 Firefighters 6 EMS personnel, 2 Engines, 1 Tanker, 1 Rescue, 1 Ambulance and 2 Wildland Squads. We average (combined Fire/EMS) about 350 calls/year.
I don't know what our EMS people are compensated like, but our Fire Commissioners give us $6.00/call/training/drill as a "clothing and POV reimbursement" We have no yearly cap, so some of our members receive over $1000 mid December of each year. We do have one paid fulltime member who is a Captain and also serves as Fire Marshal and Inspector. Our Chief is given an administrative incentive, but I am not privy to the amout.
Keep On Keeping On!
12-12-1999, 07:01 PM #20Jay D. ScottFirehouse.com Guest
Yours is not a volunteer fire department. Yours is a paid fire department. My understanding of Workers Compensation laws tells me that claims for on-the-job injuries are based on the salary you are paid for the job you do on which you're injured. I'd hate to have a permanent injury and my Workers' Compensation claim based on salaries you're describing. Good luck and stay safe.
12-12-1999, 09:11 PM #21craig7404Firehouse.com Guest
You Volunteer firefighters who get pay should really count your blessing. We get no money at all for any time we spend in the fire department. In fact we are a very rural dept. so we don't have very much money for equipment( thank God for grant Programs)and we pay for some supplies out of our own pockets and make the equipment that we can't afford. I do wish we could get paid at least for the gas we use driving to the fire station.
12-13-1999, 01:36 AM #22MFD3246Firehouse.com Guest
Well said, Jay & Craig!
Jay, you bring up an interesting point, one which I will check further into for my district.
Craig, I do count my blessings.. but I'd still be doing this even without the $6/call. If it were about money, I'd certainly be in the wrong field. It amounts to a nice "Christmas Bonus", but as I say, I'm doing it because it's what I do.
Thanks for the input!
Flamae Eos Non Habento
(The Flames Shall Not Have Them)
12-13-1999, 01:40 PM #23Bob SnyderFirehouse.com Guest
We're all on straight salary:
Dep/Asst Chief: $000,000
But seriously...remuneration is the wave of the future. It may be pay-per-call, it may be local tax breaks, it may be something else. It's getting harder and harder to recruit people to do this (or anything else) for free. We'll hold out as long as we can, but it's not going to last forever. We all might as well face up to that.
12-14-1999, 02:35 AM #24Pelican LakeFirehouse.com Guest
Our Vol. Fire Dept. does PAY a stripend to all FF's based on how many meetings/trainings, and how many hours on fire runs each year. And it is paid out in December as a "Bonus". This year mine came out to $2.66 per meeting and $6.00 per hour on fire runs. Our Chief and Officers get the same pay as FF and no extra. And yes we do get taxes and Medicare taken out of it. I think I only missed 6 meetings (2+ per month) & 4 fire calls this year (total calls 39), so after taxes I got a wopping $119.13. Hey it's not like it's a paying job but it is a nice way to say "thank-you" and a little comp. for when you have to close your business to go out on a fire call. I, myself, would still be doing it even if we didn't get anything. I don't think any of us are ever "in it for the money" whether your "totally Volunteer, paid per call, or paid on call. But how can you say we're "Paid" if it's not even minimum wage? But to tell you the truth... I would much rather get a "thank-you" then the check.
12-14-1999, 08:47 PM #25craig7404Firehouse.com Guest
Thank you MFD3246 for you kind words and thoughts. I did not mean any harm between paid or not paid Volunteer fire fighters. I was just stating that so are more fortunite then others, But we all fight fires for the same reasons and it cannot be the money, it must be because we want to help our neighbors and our towns or communities.
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