Thread: daytime membership
03-04-2000, 04:27 PM #1Darrin RooneyFirehouse.com Guest
Being on a volunteer department has proven to be a real hardship durng the day.We have a roster of 30 members,and are lucky to get 10 for daytime fires!Thank god for mutual aid!
03-05-2000, 01:02 AM #2LMRCap1Firehouse.com Guest
Don't feel alone we have active membership of 16 presently. During the day depending on the day we may only have 2 or 3 people. Thank god for mutual aid and those dedicated enough who work a swing shift at their paid jobs.
03-05-2000, 07:47 PM #3STATIONTWOFirehouse.com Guest
This is something i have been looking at.I wonder if targeting a certain group of people the answer.You know the people coming off the highway at 8:00 am instead of getting on it.If we are able to get better day time coverage would we be able to train them.point being if they are working evenings and night.Could we train them day times.would we accept that they would not be able to make meetings, drills, and calls at night.We can not accept a new member over the age of 55.To me that makes no sense,that would be prime age.Person with plenty of free time.
Just my thoughts
have a great day
03-06-2000, 07:02 AM #4chf jstanoFirehouse.com Guest
This is one of the reasons we have mutual aid agreements;to suppliment manpower and equipment.I happen to be a "night person" and I would never hesitate to roll out of the sack to go help neighboring depts.And I would never hesitate to call them to assist our dept.That is truely one of the great things about the fire service,we are always there for each other.If you are aware of some people in your community who work nights or evenings, approach them and ask if they might be willing to join your orginization.I do admit ,sometimes you have to be a little creative on training times and opportunities and attending meetings may be tough,but we in this line of service are known for flexability and creativity.STAY SAFE!
03-06-2000, 12:08 PM #5Eng 48Firehouse.com Guest
My workplace allows us to respond to calls during the day. They understand we provide them with fire protection and so it's no problem. My home town department isn't as lucky. We have the same problem during the day, getting three or four guys. I can leave work to go there as well (if the tones reach my pager) but even then I am at least 15 minutes out. We can only do so much with what we have. Some dept. hire a few daytime firefighters just to get by. We may see more of that in the future.
Be safe everyone!
03-06-2000, 02:50 PM #6EXJAKEFirehouse.com Guest
Mutual Aid is supposed to be for the BIG one!
You are supposed to call Mutual Aid only after using up all of yur own department's capabilities ie: personnel and equipment.
Using Mutual Aid for, so called, routine incidents is an abuse of the system and an extra burden on your neighboring Departments.
You should find another solution because eventually they will notice the one way traffic of fire apparatus and personnel!
Good Luck and be careful out there,EXJAKE:-)
03-06-2000, 03:41 PM #7Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
Different areas use mutual aid differently Ex-Jake! Since the 60s (50s? 40s maybe?) and still today all structure fires in my Town automatically role three departments -- but realize most towns in this area are one department, one station -- so some towns have six fire departments...
Second, for that restriction on Age 55...betta have your lawyer check that. Probably is illegal now -- age discrimination applies wether or not your paid -- you're still an "employee"
Lastly...I've always thought it would be a perfect application for (like, oh my god, he's about to use that dirty word, REGIONALIZATION...) regionalization -- maybe each station can find 3 or 4 people available during the day -- but put together 4 or 5 stations and you have 15 people. Then have a training class for all of them together -- heck, even put together a FFI class during the days for all of them. Then maybe each of the four stations rotate who hosts the training each month.
It's definitely a problem in recruiting people who work second shift and can't attend day drills! But it seems to me by pooling resources, several departments together could make it work.
I do know of one town in my region that does have weekday drills once a month or so -- but they also run 5 stations and protect nearly 30,000 people with an all volunteer force.
03-06-2000, 08:49 PM #8jboczekFirehouse.com Guest
Exjake, don't know where you come from but any of our mutual aid departments are in the same shape - not enough during the day. We help each other no matter how many times we call. Maybe YOU think mutual aid is for the big one, but most of us are more than willing to help out another short handed dept.
As for what's the answer for daytime, we're starting to have training sessions during the morning hours so some of our night workers can come. It seems to be working out but we still need more people who work nights.
[This message has been edited by jboczek (edited March 06, 2000).]
03-07-2000, 11:45 PM #9Kelly ToolFirehouse.com Guest
Hey Darrin- our department is in the same boat. We have mutial aid with 3 surrounding departments, which is a big help, and we also allow people who regularly work in our district (40hrs or more) to join our department with out having to live within it, this allows us to tap into people who are working during the daytime who could potentially respond. Currently though we only have about 2 people that do this (hey every little bit helps).
Put the wet stuff on the red stuff!
03-08-2000, 09:50 PM #10billdvfdFirehouse.com Guest
we have the same problem in our dept.Day time fires are hard to make for some people,they just have to make a living.But what are you gonna do.They try to make what they can,however its sad when you get a call in the middle of the night and the guys that work in the day dont make the calls at night.
Delta Vol.Fire Dept.
Delta Colorado. www.fire-ems.net/firedept/view/DeltaCO/
03-10-2000, 03:28 AM #11ChapCaptFirehouse.com Guest
EXJAKE, you criticized yourself in your own post. You said mutual aid if for the big one when you deplete your own depts resources. Well, if 3 or 4 guys is all your resources and you need more for even little stuff, that fits your definition of calling for help when you run out of your own manpower.
Just like the others we have manpower problems during the day as well. Our neighboring depts. have never complained about getting called for "little" jobs and we have never complained about getting called by them. That is the whole point of mutual aid. If we are not willing to help each other no matter how glorious or mundane the job is we might as well pack it in now.
I hope that is not the attitude your department really takes. If it is, obviously you don't provide much mutual aid to your neighbors and you are probably the last on the list to be called. If you don't call mutual aid accept when your FFs are in deep and everything is all tied up, who is watching your backs? Sounds like a dangerous situation to me. Calling for help when the s--t hits the fan is too late.
03-12-2000, 04:48 PM #12Chief TaylorFirehouse.com Guest
"Personnel Augmentation" is the 1st reason I drafted and signed an automatic mutual aid aggreement with the next town. During the daytime hours if I get 6 people at a fire, I am doing great. The town that we signed with only has sometimes 1 person in town during the daytime.
It workes out good for both of our communities as we are giving back to each other the same thing. FIREFIGHTERS!
PS, if I got 10 people to a fire, I think I would have the big one right there.
03-13-2000, 11:08 PM #13JR95Firehouse.com Guest
Well getting back to day time response....
My department has a special membership for day time responders. This roll includes people who work in town during the day, but may reside in a seperate town. Aside from this membership, we are lucky enough to have several members who work in town during the day.
Mutual Aid is only called if there is a fire alarm at one of the schools in any of the towns within in the mutual aid agreement.
03-15-2000, 03:35 PM #14Tom LafleurFirehouse.com Guest
Been there done that.We have 4 carrier and 35 POC. I worked a day shift for a carrer guy, and got an auto alarm for the local elderly housing. Arriving with the first peice I had 1 cop and 2 emt's. Lucky it was burnt toast.Talk about s%&ting your pants.
03-21-2000, 01:00 AM #15Buddah1109Firehouse.com Guest
i feel very lucky ion this situation because my sta we can gurantee our firehouse to empty out yes we are voulnteer we just have that many guys and plus it helps that the township we live in passed an ordinance that any certified firefighter from one of the township fire depts my go to another co if they are in the vicinty and they are coverd under the insurance
04-10-2000, 05:13 AM #16Fireman RyFirehouse.com Guest
Be lucky that your department gets that many members to show up during the day. A few weeks ago, a department in my county had a brush fire go to 3 alarms because of the lack of manpower. My station will have about 3 guys show up during the day and on several occassions, they call for our engine, rescue and ladder out of my station. Count your blessings.
Warminster Fire Department
04-22-2000, 04:18 PM #17Fireman488Firehouse.com Guest
8 AM to 4 PM is probably our department's busiest time of day for both Fire and EMS.
Being fully volunteer, we rely heavily on our Village Highway Dept. to fill the void of members at work. Highway Department employees, who are firefighters, are permitted/encouraged to respond to alarms during their working hours.
We also have some members, who work nights, and some, who work shifts: police officers and career firefighters.
In addition to some members, who are retired, but still able to perform some firefighting duties, particularly driving.
Adding all of these manpower resources together, we are able to adequately cover the daytime hours.
04-26-2000, 11:14 AM #18FF.FOREVERFirehouse.com Guest
I work for 2 fully vol. depts. I believe that the problem is the employers don't understand the service we provide to our towns and cities. I'm lucky that I have an employer that says if I have a structure fire I'm allowed to respond. I used to work for a hospital and trying to respond from that place was like pulling teeth. I know everyone has jobs and bills to pay as I do also. But how many strucutre fires do you get a year? In my town including mutial aid I'm lucky if we get 10 and most of them are at night. Mutial aid is a great thing I just wish the employer would be more understanding!
04-26-2000, 12:42 PM #19WOODMANFirehouse.com Guest
I WOULD SAY MOST VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENTS ARE IN THE SAME BOAT THAT BEWTEEN 8-4 WE ARE LUCKY TO GET 3 MEN TO A TRUCK WHICH IN MY DEPARTMENT MEANS 6 GUYS AT A WORKER.THANK GOD
THAT THE CITY NEXT TO US (A PAID DEPARTMENT)SENDS US A ENGINE AND A TRUCK FOR EACH REPORTED WORKER.
TO EXJAKE I TAKE IT TO HEART WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT MUTUAL AID FOR THE BIG ONE PUT DURING THE DAY IT IS ALWAYS AUTOMATIC FOR US AND MOST VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENTS AROUND ME AND WE HAVE BOTH PAID AND VOLLIES SOME TIME AND IT WORKS OUT JUST FINE AND THERE IS NO ONE WAY STREET OF MATERIAL COMING INTO A TOWN AND IT IS NOT ABUSED BY ANY ONE TOWN OR CITY!!!!
04-26-2000, 11:25 PM #20fireaterFirehouse.com Guest
With that problem, we have a few high school students that are firefighters and properly trained and a few of them are even EMT's so we use them alot. In the day time we also have a 63 year old who has been with the dept for over 40 years as an engineer and then there is a ff that works for the city and another is an insurance agent that the company let him move his office into his basement so that he can respound on calls with us.
Stay Safe and remember to put the wet stuff on the red stuff
05-01-2000, 03:53 PM #21pfpchiefFirehouse.com Guest
i am chief of one company in a 3 company town if we get 10 guys at a call between the 3 its a mircle.we can cover the smells and bells this way but not any kind of working job.we have a mutual aid agreement with all our neighbors. if we call they come and we go if they call .we just do the best we can. thank God for 2nd shift guys or we would be hard pressed to get that many
05-11-2000, 11:50 AM #22bob1350Firehouse.com Guest
This is a problem that we as volunteers and those of us that are leaders on the dept. need to address now. Our dept has about 60 members and we may get 2-3 for a daytime response. Ours is a combo dept. and the career chief rightly criticizes us for not geeting a good daytime repsonse. We've changed our by-laws to allow those who do not live in the district but work here to join so they can respond. We are also going to visit local businesses and try to recruit for daytime response. If I have a day off from work, I try run every call I can, just to make the numbers look good.
05-14-2000, 11:28 PM #23bowstringtrussFirehouse.com Guest
BUT ISN'T IT FUNNY HOW THEY ALL SEEM TO SHOW UP FOR THE BIG ONE! (HA HA)
IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF US FACE THE SAME PROBLEM HERE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?
SEEK GOVT $$ FOR PAID DAYLIGHT CREWS? CAN WE GET THE POLITICIANS TO OPEN THEIR WALLETS?
HOW ABOUT RECRUIT MORE PEOPLE? WHAT PEOLPE? OUR TOWN IS MOSTLY SENIORS, KIDS, - AND THOSE SAME KIDS PARENTS - WHO NOT ONLY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR FIREFIGHTING, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME FOR THEIR KIDS!
IT GETS PRETTY SAD WHEN YOU HAVE TO ROLL 3 FIRE COMPAMIES JUST TO GET ENOUGH MANPOWER TO SAW UP A DOWNED TREE!!
HOPEFULLY WE CAN COME UP WITH A SOLUTION SOON!
05-17-2000, 02:30 AM #24sarg226Firehouse.com Guest
During the day we are covered pretty well compared to other areas. i belong to a vollie dept. The trucks roll driver only a lot during the day but we have a lot of guys who can leave work and our retired guys help out tremendously. During the day the basic idea is get the truck there and the personnel will meet you.
05-17-2000, 03:24 PM #25FFShootyFirehouse.com Guest
For years, our Department has not had any problems rolling with a full crew, (driver, Officer, and at least 4 FF's) within 3-4 minutes during the day. We're luck to have understanding employers here who allow us to leave, mine included. One day it is going to happen though. We're all getting older and we don't seem to be getting any quality or total committment out of the newer generations. We've been fortunate for years, but how much longer can we get by? As far as mutual aid goes, if jurisdictions have the agreements in place and the companies are willing, I think it's great that Departments are working together. To infer that mutual aid is only for the "Big One" is ludicrous. We're all in this for the same reason. Anyone Agree?
Go Right for Sirens and Lights!
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