1. #1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post POV Response vs Station Time

    I am a volunteer division chief from a combination dept. I am looking for information from large vol. depts or combo depts regarding SOP's that you may have that allow you to respond in your POV, or making you respond from the station. I know COFireLt talked a little about this, and maybe it has been brought up before in this forum. I would like to know know how big your district is and how many volunteers you have. You can E-mail me if want at: frchief3@yahoo.com. Just give me lots of info. Thanks

  2. #2
    Firehouse.com Guest


    -- 50 Firefighters & Firefighters/EMTs
    -- 25 EMTs or Ambulance-only members
    -- 25 sq. mi. Fire/First Responder Area, pop. 5,000
    -- 6 pieces of Apparatus
    -- 70 sq. mi. Ambulance Area, pop. 10,000
    -- 2 Ambulances

    -- 75 Fires/MVAs per year
    -- 200 First Responder medicals per year
    -- 750 Ambulance runs per year

    -- Each apparatus has 2-3 "Assigned Drivers" whose responsibilities are routine maintenance, washing, truck checks, etc...AND responding to the stations to get their truck or others on the road.

    -- Ambulance crews are scheduled. We try to maintain minimum of a Driver & 2 EMTs, legally can get away with 1 Driver/1st Responder and 1 EMT. **Ambulance crewmembers must be within 7 minutes of the station** If we have a legal crew and 7 minutes have passed, rig roles even if people on schedule haven't arrived yet. Ambulance will not role without a legal crew *unless* an officer or apparatus has confirmed that members are on the scene available to make the run.

    Some members do stay at the station while on ambulance duty; and we encourage social (car washing/TV watching/Pool playing/Homework doing/etc.) use of the station, but we don't have an overnight "bunk" program. Although an occassional snow storm has found an ambulance crew asleep in the back of the rigs We don't have that large of a call volume...figure if you spend 8 hour shifts at the station, only 1 in 2 or 3 do you get a run. Usually more like 4 one shift, and none for the next 8 shifts Kinda gets boring after a couple years!

    Other than the A.D.s and Ambulance Crew on the schedule, it's normally up to the individual members to decide to respond to the scene or to the station. Members who do respond POV to the scene *must* park in a row on the same side of the street under penalty of a serious lecture being given by someone with lots of bugles on the collar.

    The major exception is when we're responding on an extra-alarm fire (i.e. we weren't automatic aid on the 1st alarm) all members report to the stations, and the officers will assign riding positions and car-pool any additional troops being sent.

    For certain calls, dispatch will also have us report to the station w/o giving a location and/or nature of the call over the radio. Usually these are calls involving weapons and police still securing the scene, search & rescues, or other matters where a very controlled response is needed.

    A nights/weekend structure fire will usually turn out 36 members -- and if we filled every seat on our trucks plus 3 on an ambulance, they only fit 22. 15-20 POVs on scene is pretty standard and doesn't create a lot of problems for us, though the person in car #20 has a bit of hike!

    We also don't operate "company style" (i.e. a vehicle arrives with an officer & riders who act as a team). We run a "manpower pool" system...officers and workers are put together for a role, and if they're done they go back into the manpower pool. Members arriving POV don the first available airpack they find, report to either our Engine-Tank or Rescue and tag in on the accountability ring and await assignment from the pools at the ET and/or Rescue.


    [This message has been edited by Dalmatian90 (edited May 15, 2000).]

  3. #3
    Firehouse.com Guest


    We try to have a duty crew on at the station as much as possible. We do have sleeping and kitchen facilities to make that more comfortable.

    We all are issued pagers so that we can respond from home or work and we encourage that for any 'Rescues'. These incidents tend to be labor intensive and the one or two people on the duty crew greatly appreciate the help.

    We run medical calls POV as well, but we don't put as much emphasis on it since we know EMS is going.

    We require a checkoff on driving, patient care and basic rescue skills prior to being cut loose to respond POV and have red lights in your vehicle. We also require that anyone responding POV have a basic medical kit and hand tools (pry bar, screwdriver, hammer, hacksaw etc.) so they can do something when they get there besides look great in their gear.

    Susan Bednar
    Captain - Forsyth Rescue
    North Carolina Strike Force 1

  4. #4
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Thanks for the info. The reason I'm asking is because our combo dept. is at a crosroads. We have about 65 active volunteers and about 40 paid firefighters. The paid chiefs and the volunteer chiefs have a basic philosophical difference in how we should operate. The paid chiefs would like to make all future volunteers do station time (36 hours a month). Right now, no one is required to do station time but rookies. We( the volunteer chiefs) feel that we can serve the community better by responding in our POV's. Our district is about 260 square miles, and most of the time a volunteer shows up first. He/she has no water and no airpak, but can do numerous other things to get the incident started off on the right track. On new years eve, the volunteer chiefs agreed that all volunteers would respond only from the stations(we have 5) in BRT's due to Y2K concerns. We had a structure fire, took trucks out of service for manpower while 15 volunteers stayed at a station unable to respond due to our one-time agreement. We feel so strongly about this, a mediator has been hired by the city to help us with these issues. Thanks for listening and keep your responses coming!!

  5. #5
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Keep me informed on how this forum goes as well as your situation. I'm sure you know that these things can get blown way out of proportion. You've got my mail....GOOD LUCK!!!! All the best to your Cause.

  6. #6
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Well This isnt my Fire Dept. BUT its my ems squad I belong to...We have Day Time Crew and Night time Crew..and We are 100% Volunteer. Its hard for us to get crews out during the daytime hours so we sometimes call mutual aid...but most of hte time we get enough people during the day to answer alarms.

    "Looks Like you Gotcha Self a hot one First Time up Kid"


  7. #7
    Firehouse.com Guest


    We have 4 trucks (2 pumpers & 2 tankers) in our department and we have 4 assigned drivers with 4 backup drivers(only used if somebody is sick, on vacation, ect...). We usually only take two trucks(pumper & tanker sometimes just pumper) to most calls unless more will are needed so, only the assinged drivers have to respond to the station it's up to everybody else to respond POV or to the station. If we only need two trucks when they are gone and a driver arrives at the station he usually goes on to the scene.

  8. #8
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Stratford Fire Dept. Station 64-1
    Stratford, NJ

    50 Department Members Active/Non-Active
    0 Career Firefighters
    9 Line Officers
    35 Active Volunteer Firefighters
    6 Active Jr. Firefighters

    6 Firefighter/EMTS

    1 1978 Ford/Young Pumper Engine 6411
    1 1993 Pierce RescueEngine Engine 6413
    1 1998 KME 100' Ladder Ladder 6414
    1 1997 Ford/Kenco Utility Utility 6415

    Alarms Responded to 1999: 402
    Alarms to date 2000: 187
    Average Number of Members per call: 15-25
    Average Number of Jr. Members per call: 2
    Average Day-Time Turn-Out: 8-10 Members

    Members alerted through Pager System{Motorola Minitor II Repeaters} and respond to the hall and take requested equipment to scene

  9. #9
    Firehouse.com Guest


    We also use minitor pagers to alert members. Many also have alpha pagers -- address, nature of call & list of dispatched aparatus is shipped by the dispatch center.

    Response area: 13 sq. miles
    Population: 50,000
    Stations: 3
    Aparatus: 8 (4-E,1-R,1-TW,2-EQ)
    Active members: 75
    1999 Calls: 1440
    Daytime resonse: 15-20 members
    Night / Weekend: 35-40 members

    Ambulance service is provided by another organization, although we first respond on some calls (about 350-400 per year). The Amb service also has their own first reponders (POV). Several of our members are also volunteers / employees of the ambulance service. Ambulance co. also runs the dispatch center.

    At least half of our members are cleared to drive the aparatus (except the 100' Tower - only about 25% for it). All members are allowed to go POV to scene. Must be EMS certified to POV to medical calls. Must get special permission to have lights & siren.

    Generally the people who live near the stations get the trucks and the ones who don't, go POV. Rules change when it comes to Mutual Aid. We try to limit POVs on MA calls - even prohibited with certain departments. The trucks may wait a little longer for a bigger crew.

    About 25% of the members have radios (either personal or dept issued) of one kind or another. Frequently, the first person on scene will be a POV with a radio, who can give a size up and alter the response if necessary. Officers, and some drivers, will announce (via radio) whether they are going to the station or direct to the scene. Other members with radios will announce only if they are very close to the scene.

    Quarters for overnight stays are available at the stations. Sta-1 has bunks for 10, Sta-2 has 2 beds, Sta-3 has none. Most of the Sta-3 members live in the same subdivision as the station -- hard to get people to give up THEIR bed just to be 90 seconds closer.

    We also encourage "hanging out" at the stations. Washing POVs, cable TV, pool tables, some exercise equip (more planned), computer w/ internet access, work bench & tools available.

    Certain types of calls (i.e. Bomb Threat) require all members to respond to the station. Any personnel abusing the POV policy (driving complaints, parking, always leaving the scene before clean up is done) are dealt with by the officers. Have not had many problems with this.

    When POVs arrive at the scene, the person (after parking correctly) gets a SCBA off one of the trucks and reports to the resource pool for assignment.

    If we didn't allow POVs, we would loose a lot of members. Since our trucks pull in a relatively short amount of time (about 4 min) many members would never be able to make it to the station in time to ride.

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