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Thread: Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhrozenLBFD View Post
    NY State Law allows for all volunteer responders in the POV's to yield at red lights, then proceed with caution. However, your light(s) must be visible 360 degrees. Most of the guys in the dept. have lights in the back, front, and side of their cars...

    I don't know what the deal is with sirens, and so forth. I was just talking about what I figured it was. Do the chiefs no some of them have sirens? ... Maybe, but I haven't seen anyone get yelled at. Yet again... I've only been in for a few months. I'm only a probie, so I'm probably wrong.
    Are you trying to say the NY law says you can stop at a red light and then proceed through it using a blue light? If so please quote that law.


  2. #202

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    Default Nothing I can find prohibits more than one green light POV in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianFyrTrks View Post
    I'm sure this has already been commented on by my fellow Ontarians, however, I'll say it again, the Rule in Ontario is that Volunteers have the ability to attend a call within there own community, district or municipality with a flashing green light (One only!) some departments restrict some of their volunteers or "Paid On Calls" to attend to the station only as accidents have been prone in the past causing serious collisions and in some cases deaths. The Green light as mentioned only one mounted in or on the vehicle (No Lightbars) do not entitle the operator of the vehicle any special consideration and is merely a warning light, they must obey all laws in accordance with the Highway Traffic Act.
    This has been a hot topic in our department. we have one ranking officer who seems ammends his version of the legislation as the discussion heats up. for example, he is adamant that the HTA states ONE green light...then goes on to say FACING FORWARD. While I acknowledge that the law is written in a singular tense regarding Ontario firefighter POV utilizing green lights, it does the same pertaining to red lights for acknowledged and defined emergency vehicles.

    Fire department vehicles, etc., approaching - 159.

    (1) The driver of a vehicle, upon the approach of a police department vehicle upon which a bell or siren is sounding or upon which a lamp is producing intermittent flashes of red light or red and blue light, or upon the approach of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or public utility emergency vehicle upon which a bell or siren is sounding or upon which a lamp is producing intermittent flashes of red light, shall immediately bring such vehicle to a standstill, (NOTE UPON WHICH A LAMP IS PRODUCING INTERMITTENT FLAsHEs OF RED LIGHT....)

    From a press release from the MTO regarding Bill 203:
    Flashing Lights Ė Effective September 30, 2007

    Police services can now use flashing blue lights in combination with flashing red lights on their vehicles. The combination of flashing blue and red lights will help increase visibility and public recognition of police vehicles, especially at night.
    Flashing red lights can now be used on vehicles designated by regulation, such as:
    Ministry of Revenue vehicles operated by provincial offences officers;
    Aviation and forest fire management vehicles operated by an officer while responding to a fire or other emergency;
    Emergency response vehicles designated by the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care under the Ambulance Act.
    Flashing green lights can now be used by designated volunteer medical responders in addition to firefighters while responding to an emergency in their personal vehicles. (NOTE THE PLURAL)

    I serve in a an area that has major highways travelling through it and we are expected to respond in our own vehicle. We are supposed to keep our gear in our own vehicles. In one of our two family vehicles I have two green lights, one facing forward and one facing backwards in the rear window. There is nothing stating it is prohibited in the HTA. There is no offense defined or penalty stipulated for it and I personally consider it a personal safety issue. Our department does not supply the lights or reimburse us for them. I personally do not understand why certain people have such a boner against a guy who wants to make himself visible at an emergency scene. if a guy wants to spend a couple of thousand dollars on lights, make fun of him all you want but don't accuse him of breaking the law. This is not just geared towards the quoted author above.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhrozenLBFD View Post
    NY State Law allows for all volunteer responders in the POV's to yield at red lights, then proceed with caution.


    Since when? AFAIK in NY the blue light is a courtesy light, full stop, no arguments - you have to obey ALL traffic laws and signals. At least that's what I've always been taught and I've had no reason to doubt this. I would treat the above quote as misinformation and urge all other NY vollies to do the same!

    Mike

  4. #204
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    im from upstate NY we use blue lights no siren. according to NY state dot on blue lights it states 1 blue Lt visible, 360deg, rotating no more the 30 times a minute, and no more then 25 candle power. now i know what everyone is thinking thats a 30 yr old tear drop. no one bothers you as long as its straight blue, no clear. green lights are only used for vol ambulance corps not affiliated with a fire department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I know if I had some guy who came up behind me with a light on(especially if it's only a courtesy light) honking their horn at me I wouldn't move out of they either.
    Nice attitude to have.With all the inattentive drivers on the road maybe using ones horn is way to gain attention that they are running a light behind you.

  6. #206
    Piney Power PineyPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wconlon53 View Post
    Nice attitude to have.With all the inattentive drivers on the road maybe using ones horn is way to gain attention that they are running a light behind you.
    Actually, you're 100% right. There are drivers that don't ever check behind them and it makes us wait to get around them or to the station. Another problem is getting behind large vehicles like buses or trucks. Not all of them can see you when you're behind them. An audible device might alert them at that point.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by PineyPower View Post
    Actually, you're 100% right. There are drivers that don't ever check behind them and it makes us wait to get around them or to the station. Another problem is getting behind large vehicles like buses or trucks. Not all of them can see you when you're behind them. An audible device might alert them at that point.
    NJ allows for an airhorn.
    head light flasher, and a dash light like the Talon or Avenger is ample warning power.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  8. #208
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    BLSboy do you have the place that it states that?

  9. #209
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    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  10. #210
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    That link is not the law as passed. There are differences. As you will see, the final law does not mention electronic horns.

    This is:

    http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2004/Bills/AL05/218_.PDF

    From the database:

    http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin...Doc_Frame_PG42
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 06-29-2008 at 09:26 AM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by wconlon53 View Post
    Nice attitude to have.With all the inattentive drivers on the road maybe using ones horn is way to gain attention that they are running a light behind you.
    What's wrong with my attitude. A courtesy light is just that, a courtesy light. If people want to be courteous and pull over they can. I've never heard of laws stating you HAVE to pull over for courtesy lights. If you are considered an emergency vehicle and have lights and sirens that is a different thing.

    Some 18 y/o jackass coming up behind me with his blue or green or red light honking his horn is just going to tick me off. If I see you coming up driving sensibly with your light flashing, sure I will pull over. You start whaling on your horn that tells me you're demanding me pull over for you and showing that your willing to get aggressive to get by me. I'm sure the Motor Vehicle laws do not state if somebody will not pull over for your courtesy light you can use your horn to make them.

    I would be the first person at that firehouse reporting them for pulling that crap. It kind of puts a negative image on the dept when some 18 y/o lunatic driver is coming up behind people honking their horn to get them out of the way.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    I would be the first person at that firehouse reporting them for pulling that crap. It kind of puts a negative image on the dept when some 18 y/o lunatic driver is coming up behind people honking their horn to get them out of the way.

    I think he was refering more towards people who simply aren't paying attention, not being "aggressive". There have been plenty of times that I've come up on a vehicle, continued behind them for a minute or two, then tapped on the electric airhorn only to have them finally look in their mirror and immediatly pull over, they simply didnt even know I was behind them. And in my state our lights aren't courtesy, the problem is people just dont pay attention ot their mirrors.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

  13. #213
    Piney Power PineyPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
    I think he was refering more towards people who simply aren't paying attention, not being "aggressive". There have been plenty of times that I've come up on a vehicle, continued behind them for a minute or two, then tapped on the electric airhorn only to have them finally look in their mirror and immediatly pull over, they simply didnt even know I was behind them. And in my state our lights aren't courtesy, the problem is people just dont pay attention ot their mirrors.
    Yeah, NJ law now states that blue lights are not courtesy lights anymore. Motorists must pull to the shoulder when someone comes up behind them with a blue light. It even states that motorists who don't comply with this law can be issued traffic violations.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

  14. #214
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
    I think he was refering more towards people who simply aren't paying attention, not being "aggressive". There have been plenty of times that I've come up on a vehicle, continued behind them for a minute or two, then tapped on the electric airhorn only to have them finally look in their mirror and immediatly pull over, they simply didnt even know I was behind them. And in my state our lights aren't courtesy, the problem is people just dont pay attention ot their mirrors.
    While I know it's frustrating to be stuck behind people(where I come from there is no lights at all) it still does not give anybody the right to just lay into the horn to get somebody out of your way. If your behind someone who won't pull over, wait until the roadway is clear ahead and safely go around them or just continue behind them. Relax a little bit. The trucks or fire will be there regardless. If somebody is not paying attention enough that you have to honk your horn, who is to say you will not startle that person if you start laying into them. Just a thought. You could **** them off or worse yet cause them to panic and potentially hurt somebody or themselves.

    I'm sorry, but no matter what your situation is, unless your laws say to use your horn to get people out of the way there is no reason you should be. Get there when you get there.

    Did you read the original guys posts I responded too. It sounds like his dept is not really one for following rules anyways. According to him in his state he can proceed with "extreme caution" through a red light, yet everybody else from there tells him he is wrong. Funny thing is when he was questioned he never came back to answer. Something tells me this guy is using his horn a little more than just to get people who are not paying attention out of his way.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    The laws vary a lot depending on the state. New Hampshire requires that you sound an "audible warning device" when approaching traffic or an intersection. And our red lights aren't courtesy lights. A vehicle with red lights is emergency apparatus, and all traffic is required to yield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    Some 18 y/o jackass coming up behind me with his blue or green or red light honking his horn is just going to tick me off. If I see you coming up driving sensibly with your light flashing, sure I will pull over. You start whaling on your horn that tells me you're demanding me pull over for you and showing that your willing to get aggressive to get by me. I'm sure the Motor Vehicle laws do not state if somebody will not pull over for your courtesy light you can use your horn to make them.

    I would be the first person at that firehouse reporting them for pulling that crap. It kind of puts a negative image on the dept when some 18 y/o lunatic driver is coming up behind people honking their horn to get them out of the way.
    Alright... I fully agree with you, and I have a minor story to go along with that. The other day, I was responding to reports of a house fire. I have blue and white lights in the front of my POV and Red/Blue in the back. I take back streets to get to the dept., due to the fact that it is MUCH quicker. - I live in an extremely, heavily, populated area. So anyway... I was driving down the back streets, when I came to a complete stop. Some a-hole was stopped in the middle of the street with two parked cars to the side of him, so no one could get by. Three cars were behind him just sitting there. This guy was taking his time talking to a friend, not caring at all. I was forced to use my horn. Yet, he still didn't move. I had to hold my horn, and stick my head out of my window to scream "Fire Dept! Move!"... Finally he moved. I got the the fire dept. just in time to catch the truck... As we rolled out, the guy who I honked at was standing on the side of the fire house talking to my chief, saying I ordered him to move over and used my horn aggressively...

    Long story short ;-) - My chief just told him to go home and he didn't say anything to me. Was I wrong to do what I did?

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhrozenLBFD View Post
    Alright... I fully agree with you, and I have a minor story to go along with that. The other day, I was responding to reports of a house fire. I have blue and white lights in the front of my POV and Red/Blue in the back. I take back streets to get to the dept., due to the fact that it is MUCH quicker. - I live in an extremely, heavily, populated area. So anyway... I was driving down the back streets, when I came to a complete stop. Some a-hole was stopped in the middle of the street with two parked cars to the side of him, so no one could get by. Three cars were behind him just sitting there. This guy was taking his time talking to a friend, not caring at all. I was forced to use my horn. Yet, he still didn't move. I had to hold my horn, and stick my head out of my window to scream "Fire Dept! Move!"... Finally he moved. I got the the fire dept. just in time to catch the truck... As we rolled out, the guy who I honked at was standing on the side of the fire house talking to my chief, saying I ordered him to move over and used my horn aggressively...

    Long story short ;-) - My chief just told him to go home and he didn't say anything to me. Was I wrong to do what I did?
    Of course there is a story....

    You do what you want to do. I can sit here and bicker about how I think it is foolish but ultimately you are going to do it regardless, so honk away my friend. Of course what you told us about your Chiefs and the "hush hush" stuff, him telling buddy to leave for not moving for your courtesy light doesn't surprise me.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  18. #218
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    Default Ok....ok....ok

    Enough of this "Lights vs. No Lights" stuff. Let's start arguing about smooth bore vs. fog or maybe one hood vs. two

    Or we could talk about anything less important. I don't care!!!

    Take care and stay safe!!
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    Enough of this "Lights vs. No Lights" stuff. Let's start arguing about smooth bore vs. fog or maybe one hood vs. two

    Or we could talk about anything less important. I don't care!!!

    Take care and stay safe!!
    Actually it turned into more of a use a horn vs not using a horn with your courtesy light to move people out of the way.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    Actually it turned into more of a use a horn vs not using a horn with your courtesy light to move people out of the way.

    Would that be a smooth-bore horn or a fog-horn????
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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