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Thread: Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs

  1. #101
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    Default Sorry Craig

    Quote Originally Posted by craiggEMT View Post
    Here in WI, POV lights and sirens are allowed. Each county and fire chief has the option to use or not to use. Each POV equipped with a red light must have a siren. You can have combo red/white, but red must be seen. A majority of the volunteers here use dashlights and wig wags. I personally feel a POV equipped with lights/sirens should have 360* visual warning because WI FF/EMS POV have same privileges as any other emergency vehicles i.e. 15mph over posted speed limit, proceeding thru stop lights after yielding right of way,etc.
    Please check the attached:
    http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/lawbook.htm

    The speed is with "Due Prudence", no mention of of numbers in mph allowed over. The siren, again is to be used "Prudently" to avoid pedestrians and other vehicles and does not have to be sounding when the lights are on. Wig-wags are allowed by Fire Chief, if the Fire Chief is willing to do the paper work to turn one of his Volly's cars into a Class I Emergency Vehicle. This is not too likely to happen.

    Stay safe and grow old!

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    Here is a website that has almost every states lighting laws. http://www.policeposers.com

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    Hey brother's, here in our country lights and sirens are not actually allowed whether your a paid or volunteer firefighter but we do get away with it from time to time. We use red/blue with siren for FF/EMS, some use just red, most retrofit their headlights, dashboards and grills with strobes. It is legally for anyone to use those kind of paraphernalia's. We have been trying to lobby the government to allow us to use them when responding to emergencies but it has not been passed yet.



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    In Va it is red w/o siren. But I wished they would allow siren. I have encountered citizens that will not move when i am on a call. And that annoys me so bad. because that could be someone in there family that needs help.
    Gary Newcomb
    FireFighter
    Mt.Pleasant Vol Fire Co.

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    Talking wyoming

    we can run red or red/white on dash or grill. I am not sure but i dont think any sirens. can use wig wags only during the day but we are urged to use flashers with our lights. the cheifs have red/blues/clears not sure on siren.

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    They told you about the lights--they may not have taken action against you, but you were in violation of the law, to wit green is not an allowed lighting color in California, period!

    So what was your rationale for having the lights? Cause you were causing or adding to an existing traffic hazard by stopping at accidents, right? And what precisely were you doing at those accidents? Providing Fire/EMS services? Or just lookie-looing and taking pictures? Even better, were you tossing on a reflective vest and grabbing your cone-flashlights and trying to direct traffic? Setting out flare patterns?

    And since you were exacerbating an existing traffic hazard, the legal argument would then be that if you weren't there, you wouldn't need the lights to begin with...

    Do tell, though, inquiring minds would like to know...
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    The best thing to do is be lawful, not bend the law because your temporary police buddies let you.

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    Anybody know about what OR law says about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCougs View Post
    Anybody know about what OR law says about this?
    Try looking it up on the internet??? Just an option. Maybe this thread will soon die
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Well, Im sorry for asking then. Got a place where I might look online?

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    Default NYS blue and red light laws

    Does anyone know if it is illegal in New York to display red lights facing to the rear and also what about hide-a-way strobes facing to the front and or rear of your vehicle.

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    Default Live thread live!!

    This has got to be the oldest thread on here. First and formost, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! On Volies having lights and siren in their POVs. Its stupid, its dangerous, and its a liability. Darn yahoos lol But besides that, I was seeing on some of them saying that Firefighters had blue, and EMS had Green. Why would it matter what the color was anyway. Here in the great state of California, a code 3 vehicle requires a steady burning, forward looking red light within like 38 inches height from the road. I dont remember what the CVC says about siren use. So having any other color (besides blue for law enforcement) would be kinda silly. Kinda like Cal-Trans, or your other state road dept trying to get you to yield to them. I dont know, but the fact remains that, volies do not need to have lights and/or sirens in their POVs. On my volie dept, we have some members......that shouldn't be driving in the first place. Funny, Juniors/Explorers on another forum on this site were discusing wether or not THEY should have them in their vehicles.
    Last edited by elshortt; 04-13-2007 at 01:56 AM.
    Tom W. Engineer/EMT

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    Quote Originally Posted by elshortt View Post
    I dont know, but the fact remains that, volies do not need to have lights and/or sirens in their POVs. On my volie dept, we have some members......that shouldn't be driving in the first place. Funny, Juniors/Explorers on another forum on this site were discusing wether or not THEY should have them in their vehicles.
    Yes I can understand the Juniors/Explorers b/c they can not really do anything anyways in some places. but non-juniors I think should have lights. because it helps getting to the fire house. Remember time really matters at a fire. Anything can help. But come on do you really think that if someone's house is on fire and someone is inside that that person wouldn't want a volunteer firemen getting to them as quickly as they can without injuring themselves. I would rather have a fireman have lights and get to me faster than taking their sweet old time getting to me because they don't have a light. But no one answered my question yet. My post was not to get anyone angry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYS236 View Post
    Yes I can understand the Juniors/Explorers b/c they can not really do anything anyways in some places. but non-juniors I think should have lights. because it helps getting to the fire house. Remember time really matters at a fire. Anything can help. But come on do you really think that if someone's house is on fire and someone is inside that that person wouldn't want a volunteer firemen getting to them as quickly as they can without injuring themselves. I would rather have a fireman have lights and get to me faster than taking their sweet old time getting to me because they don't have a light. But no one answered my question yet. My post was not to get anyone angry.
    I don't beleive that lights save that much time if your responding too the firehouse. I have never had a light in my vehicle(only chiefs and d/c's can have them here) and I'd put money that our dept's response time is the same if not better than yours. I would bet if you responded with your little flashy lights and if you didn't your response time wouldn't change. In my mind many people,not all, but many when they get lights in their vehicle think they have just become god and pose more of hazard
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    The reality is that lights on POVs do not significantly reduce response times. These studies also indicate that lights do not significantly reduce the response times for ambulances and fire apparatus either.

    The fact is that emergency lights on POVs have proven to be more of a hazard than a positive. take a look at the number of POV related accidents each year with the resulting LODDS and civilian fatalities, and this conclusion isn't hard to reach.

    To me, giving a young volunteer firefighter a red light permit is like giving them a gun with 1 bullet in it. Eventually they'll have an accident.

    If you are going to, as a department, IMO, have a waiting period of 2-3 years before issueing them. That way the young firefighter can mature before they have the rights that a light gives them in many states.

    I perswonnally oppose red lights at all. I have seen too many folks act irresponsibly with them.

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    It's like beating a dead horse isn't it?

    There is a flip side to the argument:

    giving a young volunteer firefighter a red light permit is like giving them a gun with 1 bullet in it
    First and formost, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! On Volies having lights and siren in their POVs. Its stupid, its dangerous, and its a liability.
    Just because you can't doesn't mean others who can shouldn't. Now I don't believe "curtsey lights" have any advantage at all and I would never use one.

    However, states like mine that classify a POV with red 360 degree light and siren an emergency vehicle by law AND the department has proper SOPs and guidelines for their use, go for it!

    On our department a good number of members have them, some do some don't, it's entirely up to them. No one abuses them, we don't take the "drive it like you stole it" class and they are technically legally required for our POVs to be parked on the freeways. (Although we haven't had any problems with this... yet...)

    I look at my POV no different then the engine that we also drive, I respect it, I stop at all signals and signs and I usually don't speed. The idea is to get there, not in record times.

    The instructor of our driving course said "Driving an emergency vehicle you will come across cars all the time, now as a drive of any car how often do you come across an emergency vehicle?" which makes perfect sense.

    Simple terms lights on POVs can and do work, we are *knock on wood* free from accidents that involve miss-use, stupidity or disrespect for the tools we use. Don't be so quick to dismiss it unless you have been on both sides of the fence. I went about 6 years before I even thought about adding them to my POV.

    If you are going to, as a department, IMO, have a waiting period of 2-3 years before issueing them. That way the young firefighter can mature before they have the rights that a light gives them in many states.
    That is a beautiful policy, I absolutely love it. But I don't think we can because of the freeway issue...

    I perswonnally oppose red lights at all. I have seen too many folks act irresponsibly with them.
    Maybe those people need to re-learn their use and reason and if not - why are they allowed to keep using them?
    Last edited by Lamah989; 04-14-2007 at 06:04 PM.

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    But what about red and white lights facing to the rear of a vehicle like on teh back deck of a car or in the rear windows of pick up trucks. where i live people are pretty good about pulling over and my town is busy along with the other surrounding towns

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    another thing to add to the Mass Laws is that you are now allowed to run 1 only one Blue light to the back fo your vehicle and run a siren but you need a red light permit from your chief renewed yearly

    so

    Red/Clear/Amber/ and 1 blue to rear are alowed in MAss

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeeater51 View Post
    Greetings from New Hampsha'. Here it is red, or red/white. Roof mount or dash, wig wags and sirens are all acceptable, however, it is up to the local law enforcement and fire chief. As I posted in one of the other forum rooms concerning the same issue, all of the whirlygigs and other attention getters that we vollies put on our vehicles are just "courtesy" lights. I cannot stress this enough. No matter who you are, where you are, or what the situation is, the actions that you take reflect on the ENTIRE firefighting community, ESPECIALLY the volunteer community. Whether the call is for a structure fire, or a cat in a tree, we are all required to respond with due regard. Joe Public is not required by law to pull over and stop for volunteers responding to the station for a call. If the call you are responding to is not a life threatening call, don't risk the lives of innocent people just so you can make the first rig out. Obey all stop signs, speed limits, and traffic lights. Don't let the red lightitis disease take over. We as volunteers are responsible for our actions at all times, both on and off the fireground. If you have a light and/or plate on your vehicle, it is going to attract attention at all times, so be professional at all times. It reflects back on your fire department and the fire service as a whole. This is a very sensitive issue with departments all over the country, mostly because of liability. There is a similar topic in the "meet and greet" forum room under "dash lights", check it out.
    Just one more thing, If while responding to the station for a call, the person in front of you is "courteous" enough to pull over, be sure to extend a wave of thanks, it'll go a long way.

    Take care, stay safe, and stay low.

    Lieutenant M. Spinney
    Rollinsford Fire & Rescue
    Actually in the state of ohio, your POV is an emergency vehicle when you turn on your lights. They are required to stop and pull over for you. I have seen cops ticket people here in ohio and in south carolina for not pulling over for someone in their POV responding to the scene.

  20. #120
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    I probably posted this earlier but if you have a "Light chit" to show that you have the Chief's permission to add the color lights and sirens your state allows to your ride,and you tell your insurance company,be sure to notice how much you paid them before you got the lights added.
    They'll still insure you but you'll pay more due to the admission that you'll be driving faster and going through traffic signals after all the proper actions(Stopping,blowing horn,waiting for other traffic to clear,etc).
    You are held to a higher standard of care when you do.

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    it might be that way in TN, but in MI it's against the law to charge higher for POV's. A few of us asked about insurance costs in our driving class and were told that based on Michigan Vehicle Code MCL 257.632 that we were required to have insurance and that the agency could not raise the premium based on emergency usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    I probably posted this earlier but if you have a "Light chit" to show that you have the Chief's permission to add the color lights and sirens your state allows to your ride,and you tell your insurance company,be sure to notice how much you paid them before you got the lights added.
    They'll still insure you but you'll pay more due to the admission that you'll be driving faster and going through traffic signals after all the proper actions(Stopping,blowing horn,waiting for other traffic to clear,etc).
    You are held to a higher standard of care when you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    They'll still insure you but you'll pay more due to the admission that you'll be driving faster and going through traffic signals after all the proper actions(Stopping,blowing horn,waiting for other traffic to clear,etc).
    You are held to a higher standard of care when you do.
    Not from my insurance company (in Texas). Price has stayed the same. I was warned that "IF" I were to have an accident while responding, that I "COULD" be dropped. And "THAT" is why I don't get into accidents (besides it might hurt).
    Last edited by THEFIRENUT; 04-17-2007 at 05:56 AM.
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    If we cremate the horse, will you guys beat the ashes?
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    Quote Originally Posted by the1141man View Post
    If we cremate the horse, will you guys beat the ashes?
    Now that's comedy!!!

    This horse just won't die! Flatlined in 2000, revived in 2004, flatlined in 2004, revived in 2007.

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    Not sure why NYS236 is "n/a" but regardless I have red (no clear) because sometimes I don't like leaving my everything else on when I only need to warn (while parked) to the rear. No reason to warn people coming at you on a divided freeway right?

    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    I probably posted this earlier but if you have a "Light chit" to show that you have the Chief's permission to add the color lights and sirens your state allows to your ride,and you tell your insurance company,be sure to notice how much you paid them before you got the lights added.
    They'll still insure you but you'll pay more due to the admission that you'll be driving faster and going through traffic signals after all the proper actions(Stopping,blowing horn,waiting for other traffic to clear,etc).
    You are held to a higher standard of care when you do.
    I did, they said they would cover them if they are permanently attached.

    So not only did my rate stay the same but I was actually able to lower significantly it (lowering their rates for some reason - right time right place I guess) and then increase it minimally for half a mil coverage.

    I am not breaking the law, I am following Michigan's law, I cannot be penalized for that. Where ever you got this from is just simply wrong.

    Also, I cannot stress this enough, in Michigan a POV with the "whirlygigs" is not a "courtesy" vehicle, it is an "emergency vehicle" just like the engine with the "whirlygigs".
    Last edited by Lamah989; 04-18-2007 at 12:58 AM.

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