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Thread: Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs

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    Quote Originally Posted by the1141man View Post
    If we cremate the horse, will you guys beat the ashes?
    You can't let them blow around now can you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway75 View Post
    Now that's comedy!!!

    This horse just won't die! Flatlined in 2000, revived in 2004, flatlined in 2004, revived in 2007.
    So really it's a zombie horse...

    Interesting...it appears that zombie horses eat brains much as zombie humans do--after all, "zombie horse threads" tend to suck the gray matter right out of your skull and leave you feeling strangely empty, and craving some replacement...brrraaaaiiiiiiiinnnnnns.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    Quote Originally Posted by the1141man View Post
    So really it's a zombie horse...

    Interesting...it appears that zombie horses eat brains much as zombie humans do--after all, "zombie horse threads" tend to suck the gray matter right out of your skull and leave you feeling strangely empty, and craving some replacement...brrraaaaiiiiiiiinnnnnns.
    In case you haven't realized it yet, this horse is a manikin. It never was really alive. So go ahead and beat away.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    ... this horse is a manikin. It never was really alive.
    Wouldn't it be a "horsiekin" then?
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Actually in the state of ohio, your POV is an emergency vehicle when you turn on your lights. They are required to stop and pull over for you. I have seen cops ticket people here in ohio and in south carolina for not pulling over for someone in their POV responding to the scene.
    That is the case in New Hampshire as well. Smokeater is apparently not familiar with New Hampshire law on the subject.

    That said, if everyone DROVE AS IF their lights were curtesy lights, we would probably all be better off.

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    I am a 3 yr ff, not with my current dept. and emt in Illinois. And its safe to say the least that our restrictions suck in some areas. This is what all I have learned from taking law classes and from others from other firefighting associations. Illinois allows you to have blue/clear to the front, and from what I have heard recently, to the rear also. However, district regulations say that you can have no lighting to the rear unless you are an officer. Another thing is that if you have a signed letter from either the mayor or Sheriff of your county, you can run redlights in association with blue and clear. This is a very rare thing though unless you have "friends". Also Illinois recently brought back allowances for wig wags and headlamp strobes, but my dept still says you cannot use them. One of the good things is that you do not have to have a permit to use what you are allowed yet. All you need is a valid id card with name, pic, and exp. date signed by your chief, carried at all times. And your vehicle must be marked to the front or back to associate you with a department. However, though it is US statute that povs may run sirens, Illinois considers it a definate no no!!

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    Here in the great state of Louisiana we use red/white for ff/ems with siren
    Dino Brancato FF/EMT
    Sandy Hill Fire Rescue
    Pickering, Louisiana
    Home of the Fighting 7th

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    obvious signs of rigor and lividity...why revive???

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    obvious signs of rigor and lividity...why revive???

    Like I said before, you can not kill what was never alive. It has also been and always will be a manikin ("horsiekin"). Maybe we could dress it up as a kangaroo and send it to Australia.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    Like I said before, you can not kill what was never alive.
    ALERT ALERT

    ZOMBIE THREAD

    ALERT ALERT

    HMM shotgun blast to the head usually works on the zombies in Half-Life

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    Talking Get back!

    Hmmmm.....
    Grabs a baseball bat and starts hitting the dead horse, back! back! back!, down! down! down!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XRaysJL View Post
    Hmmmm.....
    Grabs a baseball bat and starts hitting the dead horse, back! back! back!, down! down! down!
    Its a zombie, you gotta severe the connection between the brain and the muscle controls...remember they have only the most basic of animal instincts, namely to feed. Or so says the computer of Raccoon City on Resident Evil


    Hmmm Half-Life, Resident Evil...does anyone else see a pattern here...oh well im divorced, Im allowed to play games..unless...think she left me over the games??lol

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    I might just go swipe an 105MM Howitzer and blow the p*ss out of this dead horse. Maybe that will take care of em once and for all.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Last edited by 5alarmcooker; 03-17-2008 at 07:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker View Post
    Im from the great state of NJ as someone previously posted we FF/EMTs get blue lights line officers get red and sirens obeying all traffic laws as it is a courtasy light. For the most part you can get away with driving hot as long as your being cautious about it. I believe this is a law that has to be addressed on a higher level than the states to develop a national standard simply because all emergency workers are on the job 24/7 whether some of you believe it or not. How many of you out there watched Backdraft...remember this quote "the funny thing about firemen is, their always firemen." This could never be more true. Whether responding to a call your dispatched to or coming upon an incident you should be able to use the lights in the same way as if you were paid personel sitting at the building. I know as an EMT if i am to come uppon an accident it is my duty to make sure both of the occupants are alright and provide care if they need it. This being said if im in my personal vehicle on a highway I will most certinly be using my vehicle to protect myself and the patients on the scene and utilizing my warning lights to warn other motorists to slow down. Bottom line is if you say emergency workers dont need lights on whatever vehicle they use to respond to a building or scene then your also saying they dont need them on the apparatus (fire truck, ambulance, etc.) either.
    I was corrected on another thread. In NJ it's no longer a courtesy light, it is an emergency light.

    ALSO, fyi, it's not that line officers are allowed to have red lights and sirens, it's the Chief and his/her assistant.

    13:24-2.8 Emergency light mounting and use requirements

    (c) Red emergency lights placed on a vehicle owned by and registered in the name of a current chief of a volunteer fire company or the first assistant chief of a volunteer fire company or a chief officer of a volunteer first aid or rescue squad pursuant to a permit issued by the Chief Administrator in accordance with this subchapter shall be mounted only on the exterior of the vehicle and shall consist of not more than two magnetic base-type removable lights.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Default NJ lights

    NJ is Blue lights for fire and ems with no sirens. Chiefs and their 1st asst. use red and a siren. Green is for command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker View Post
    Im from the great state of NJ as someone previously posted we FF/EMTs get blue lights line officers get red and sirens obeying all traffic laws as it is a courtasy light. For the most part you can get away with driving hot as long as your being cautious about it. I believe this is a law that has to be addressed on a higher level than the states to develop a national standard simply because all emergency workers are on the job 24/7 whether some of you believe it or not. How many of you out there watched Backdraft...remember this quote "the funny thing about firemen is, their always firemen." This could never be more true. Whether responding to a call your dispatched to or coming upon an incident you should be able to use the lights in the same way as if you were paid personel sitting at the building. I know as an EMT if i am to come uppon an accident it is my duty to make sure both of the occupants are alright and provide care if they need it. This being said if im in my personal vehicle on a highway I will most certinly be using my vehicle to protect myself and the patients on the scene and utilizing my warning lights to warn other motorists to slow down. Bottom line is if you say emergency workers dont need lights on whatever vehicle they use to respond to a building or scene then your also saying they dont need them on the apparatus (fire truck, ambulance, etc.) either.

    I dont know about in NJ, but in Ohio it isnt you "duty" to stop for an accident on the side of the road if you are in your personal vehicle, UNLESS it is in your jurisdiction and you have been dispatched to it (just an edit..going to a the station for the apparatus may also fall into your duty to act...so even then you dont have to stop in your POV). Just because you are an EMT doesnt mean you HAVE to stop at every accident you come across. Now morals are a different story I'm sure we all would stop to make sure someone is okay if we see an accident, but it is as a good samaritan and are not required to.
    Last edited by FireDawgEMT22; 02-20-2008 at 01:14 PM.

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    Problem is in some places people run lights in their POV's. How many of these people been trained to do that? I'm not 100 percent sure but aren't you supposed to take training classes on how to run lights when you're a rig shoffer? So shouldn't we worry about the basic firefighters who don't have this experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillEMTff View Post
    Here in NY Fire Chiefs run red lightes and sirens, firefighters run blue lights (supose to be 1 rotating blue visable 360degrees) though this is not inforced so some run full size bar lights (rotating or strobe) some just run dash lights(not visible 360) some, like myself, run mini-bar lights, myself strobe, others rotating. EMS run green lights same rules as blue. It's been brought to may attention that EMTs, or higher, can run reds and siren if they respond primarily to the scene. I'm not to sure if this is correct? If anyone else knows the facts please feel free to correct me.

    Thanks.

    "Fire Department From HELL"
    Correct ff is blue/ blue white. ems is green/ green white, officers can run red with siren. i have a green mini light bar on top of my car for day time and at night i run my dash. with the light bar in the back window with a towel ofer the back end so i dont get flash back in it. First responders can run red also,but no siren, i belive i was told 3 diffrent things. we can also run wig wags and strobes,but collerd lenses i think. green or blue.
    i know in europe,volly's arent allowed to run light's. atleast what i herd, we have no specheal(sp?) laws,we must do speed limit and aboy lights and stop signs.

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    Last edited by 5alarmcooker; 03-17-2008 at 07:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker View Post
    I believe im not 100% sure but my understanding is it falls under the negligence and patient abandonment part of "EMS Laws". In basic terms if anyone or yourself identifies that you are an EMT whether it be from a sticker on your car to a patch on your shirt and there is someone in need of care, but you brush it off hey its not my town im not on duty its someone elses problem. Then someone says hey that guy was an EMT and did nothing you can get yourself jammed up big time in NJ even to the point of losing your cert. Then they can also sue you for negligence and patient abandonment. In NJ whether ur from this town, this county or what not your an NJ EMT which means you basicly took an oath to provide care to anyone in need.
    Let me just respond to that section. Your post was very long and a bit hard to read without paragraphs, but no big deal.

    You are only under a duty to act if you are a paid emt and you are on shift in your jurisdiction or if you are a volunteer emt and you are "on call" in your jurisdiction.

    However, that doesn't mean you can't get sued. I suppose anyone can sue you, but it doesn't mean they will win.

    IF it was as you say, then if you are home sitting on your couch, why wouldn't you have a duty to act?

    Just because you happened to be driving to pick up your sick grandmother to take her to her MD appt and came across an accident? See where this would go?

    As for abandonment, if you had not started care, then you cannot abandon a patient. This is given the other point I made previously.

    As for an oath, I took no oath when i completed my EMT. I took an oath as a firefighter, but we don't provide EMS.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 02-26-2008 at 12:24 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    The chief pretty much explained where I was going with this. And just to add on, as EMT's we operate under a doctors liscense. We cannot perform our duties alone. So if we were to happen to be somewhere where someone needed care, and we were not in our area, our protocols wouldnt apply anymore. Thos protocols apply for a run in our area on our squad...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    And just to add on, as EMT's we operate under a doctors liscense. We cannot perform our duties alone. So if we were to happen to be somewhere where someone needed care, and we were not in our area, our protocols wouldnt apply anymore. Thos protocols apply for a run in our area on our squad...
    Just remember that each state operates a little differently.

    NJ has EMT-B's who do not operate under an MD license. However, they must operate within the scope of their certification, which is basic.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Last edited by 5alarmcooker; 03-17-2008 at 07:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker View Post
    Now chief do you know where to find the laws or literature that would cover what were talking about? What I am going by is the lecture we recieved in the medical legal module of our EMT class which i finished i believe 3 years ago. What they preached to us is what i have explained above, that as EMTs were obligated to treat anyone in need and should we not we are completely liable. They didn't say anything about jurisdiction or paid vs. Volunteer. This could be due to an instructor trying to put scare tactics in and not knowing what he was talking about. Your completely right tho you can get sued for anything in this wonderfull country so even if it was the case that your not liable, but someone has the money to get a fancy lawyer to draw up a case of a bunch of loopholds and stretched out truths they have the right to do that. Just curious as to what you have cause ive been searching the net to try and find some sort of information as to the laws we fall under in NJ but i have not found anything thats any bit of a help.
    I don't know that you will find a state law that specific. It's probably case law? Although, I would check the state's "good samaritan law". I believe it's been changed in the last few years? My memory is a little fuzzy on this.

    I will tell you that most EMT instructors don't know the law, they simply relay the "wive's tails" that they were taught. I'm no attorney, but I deal with them from time to time, and most lay people get their legal education from TV. Not the best source!

    Do you have an obligation to assist? I think that morally you do, but again, that's my opinion. If you dont stop, are you breaking the law? No.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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