+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 14 First ... 45678910 ... Last
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs

  1. #151
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northwest OH
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I don't know that you will find a state law that specific. It's probably case law? Although, I would check the state's "good samaritan law". I believe it's been changed in the last few years? My memory is a little fuzzy on this.

    I will tell you that most EMT instructors don't know the law, they simply relay the "wive's tails" that they were taught. I'm no attorney, but I deal with them from time to time, and most lay people get their legal education from TV. Not the best source!

    Do you have an obligation to assist? I think that morally you do, but again, that's my opinion. If you dont stop, are you breaking the law? No.
    Thats what I am thinking to..morally you need to help...legally i dont think so.

    And yeah we operate with protocols written by the MD, and usually call Med control to tell them what we have done. there is rare cases that we ask, we take our protocols and our judgement and based on how the pt is presenting is how we treat here. But all of our actions are still performed under our medical directors license.

  2. #152
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pine Bluff, AR.
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Here in Arkansas anything gose but blue. Blue is for LE use only, and green is reserved for Emergency Management. You must have a siren in operation with lights and POV's are considered emergency vehicals when at or responding to emergencys...

  3. #153
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6

    Default Wv/va

    VA-max two lights, must be forward facing, red/clear or just red...split colors in one light counts as two lights, no siren, no headlight, tailight or turn signal strobes, cant turn on hazard lights

  4. #154
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6

    Default Wv/va

    VA-max two lights, must be forward facing, red/clear or just red...split colors in one light counts as two lights, no siren, no headlight, tailight or turn signal strobes, cant turn on hazard lights, vehicle does not have to be registered, courtsey light only, most guys jus have a light in the windshield

    WV-red/clear/amber, in any combination, with any number of lights, headlight; tailight; turn signal strobes allowed, sirens allowed, vehicle must be registered with the state fire marshalls office, not allowed to run hazard lights...vehicle is a certified emergency fire dept vehicle after being registered, and is recognized by an inspection sticker looking sticker with the fire marsalls logo, dept number, and vehicle id number...sticker must be displayed in the front windshield...vehicle is allowed all traffic law exemptions given to actual fire trucks/ambulances

  5. #155

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default Here in NJ

    I have been a career FF here in NJ for over 30 years and I still have the problem of issuing any color light to someone who can't fully comprehend the consequenses of abusing the previlege. Just because you become a member of the local volunteer fire organization doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for the responsibility of a blue light certificate. Before we allow someone to drive our apparatus, we require them to have firefighting experience and driving experience. Most department I have had contact with do not allow their volunteers to drive during emergencies below the age of 21 (through by-laws). Then why would you put the same person in his POV on the same roadway with a blue light to wreck havoc on the general population. Joting down someones plate and call your local PD is not the answer when the blue lighter comes up behind the vehicle at excessive speed, overzealous response and an adreline level in the millions. Every second seems like hours and as the statute states, we, the firefighter with this previlege MUST obey all traffic laws also. Killing someone (firefighter or local taxpayer) getting to the fire doesn't help put the fire out quicker.

  6. #156
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2

    Default Lights W/O Siren

    Please help me understand how these cities allow you to run lights without sirens. That seems like a huge liability issue to me. I think they need to see you and hear you. Michigan states your red/red-white light must be visible from 360 and have active siren when lights on. Also only able to drive 10 over the limit, most traffic in the areas around run that anyway so do they really do you any good.

  7. #157
    Forum Member
    THEFIRENUT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottvilleFire View Post
    Please help me understand how these cities allow you to run lights without sirens. That seems like a huge liability issue to me. I think they need to see you and hear you. Michigan states your red/red-white light must be visible from 360 and have active siren when lights on. Also only able to drive 10 over the limit, most traffic in the areas around run that anyway so do they really do you any good.
    Different laws in different states.........As long as you follow your own states laws, you should have no liability.
    Last edited by THEFIRENUT; 04-18-2008 at 02:14 AM. Reason: oops! sp
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  8. #158
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
    Posts
    985

    Default

    I dont' think there's a provision in Oklahoma law for this.

    Putting lights on your car in Silver City, Oklahoma will get you to the station at exacty the same time as without. The only thing you need to move off the road around here is my neighbor's guineas, and they don't care about the lights.

    Matter of fact, if our firetrucks didn't have lights and sirens, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference. Just makes the dogs howl, mostly.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  9. #159
    Piney Power
    PineyPower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey, United States
    Posts
    331

    Default

    For volunteer POV's, in NJ we are only allowed to have blue lights. I think the maximum per vehicle is two blue lights and they have to be specifically situated in your car as per our statute. I have the excerpt in my Firefighter 1 book for all of our specifications. Emergency vehicles, however, can have blue lights, red lights, and sirens.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

  10. #160
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Volunteers who live in Long Island, New York, can have as followed: Blue/White light(s) in front, along with strobes, and any color combination in the back, along with strobes. As far as I know, the NYS Law says 1 blue light per POV, but I don't know anyone who follows that law. Sirens are not permitted on your POV unless you are a chief, and only chiefs and commissioners can run red lights in the front of their POV. Although sirens are not allowed, some depts. allow members to have air horns... I personally don't have one, but I think all depts. should REQUIRE their members to get them, seeing how they affectively get people to move over.

  11. #161
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Update from Montana. Montana law states that we as FF's or EMT can have a red light but it must be approved by the Chief and the County Sheriff. And you must carry a document that states you are with the said department, that you are authorized to use lights and it must bear the signature of the Chief.

    One of the reasons most departments don't allow it here is because of Worker Comp laws. If you are responding you are responsible for your own actions until you get in a fire truck and start driving it. But if you have a light on your vehicle the department assumes responsibility for you as soon as you turn that light on whether you are responding or not.

    Just too much liability hanging out there to allow most of us to use it. There are a few departments who do use it though.

  12. #162
    Forum Member
    RangerJake72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    153

    Default

    not to put upon anyone who may well have been responding for many years safely with authorized lights and/or siren but I would impress upon everyone to sit through a class of EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) put on by VFIS, it makes the laws and regulations as well as the uses of lights & sirens much better understood

  13. #163
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    405

    Default

    I'm sure this has already been commented on by my fellow Ontarians, however, I'll say it again, the Rule in Ontario is that Volunteers have the ability to attend a call within there own community, district or municipality with a flashing green light (One only!) some departments restrict some of their volunteers or "Paid On Calls" to attend to the station only as accidents have been prone in the past causing serious collisions and in some cases deaths. The Green light as mentioned only one mounted in or on the vehicle (No Lightbars) do not entitle the operator of the vehicle any special consideration and is merely a warning light, they must obey all laws in accordance with the Highway Traffic Act.

  14. #164
    Forum Member
    BrianB35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Belleville,MI
    Posts
    309

    Default

    As a fellow "gander" they do some good. In our response area the lights and siren do move people over. Do we get some "in-duh-viduals" who don't move over. Sure, but that's what PD is for. Give them the plate and have them deal with it.

    10 over is 10 over and that's it and that includes school zones. I personally slow down to actual limit in active school zones because I'm a parent and there are a bunch of people there hen school gets out. Now does it look like I responding in slow motion, yeah, but so what.

    That being said, I have what is required by the state. I am changing out my mini rotator to a mini strobe to increase the visible range and my siren is a hand me down PA300.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottvilleFire View Post
    Please help me understand how these cities allow you to run lights without sirens. That seems like a huge liability issue to me. I think they need to see you and hear you. Michigan states your red/red-white light must be visible from 360 and have active siren when lights on. Also only able to drive 10 over the limit, most traffic in the areas around run that anyway so do they really do you any good.

  15. #165
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hey Mark,

    I am also a UT FF and we are looking possibly doing something like this in our city, i am trying to find where it actually says that ut ff;s cant run lights on their povs's all i can find is that it has to be an "emergency vehicle" as designated by the UDPS Commisoner (41-6a-212) So i emailed them and asked and i am still wating for a reply, Plus i am also trying to get in contact with a county commisioner to see waht their thoughts on this are., Thanks

    Adam


    Quote Originally Posted by mark440 View Post
    I did not even think to mention the Firefighter plate here in Utah. It has a 4" X 4" Maltese Cross on the left side of the plate and "Firefighter" along the bottom of the plate. This is the Hottest selling custom plate in the state. You have to be in good standing with the FD for 1 year or a member of the State Firemen's Assc. for 6 months to be eligble to get the plate.

    Since last post there have been no changes in Utah state law about emergency lights on POV's.

    Mark

    ------------------
    If in doubt - Call us out

  16. #166

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3

    Default I Wish NJ Laws Were Better

    I live in NJ and I wish the NJ laws were like some other states. I am a volunteer firefighter in a town of approx. 110,000 people in central Jersey. The town is only 33 square miles but getting around can be a b*tch! We are 100% volunteer so if we are delayed getting to the station the truck doesn't get out. The blue lights work and most people move over but some days, especially summer time at the lovely Jersey Shore, a siren would be a huge help. I installed a electronic air horn from Galls, which is legal, and it has made a world of difference. Stay Safe

  17. #167
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6

    Default

    In my part of louisiana if your dept allows lights it has to be a combination of red and any color except blue some dept alow sirens some dont but overall most do. The main thing is you most have a 360 view of lights otherwise some state troppers will give tickets also no volunteer ems orginizations in this area.

  18. #168
    Piney Power
    PineyPower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey, United States
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VolFirePaidEMS1 View Post
    I live in NJ and I wish the NJ laws were like some other states. I am a volunteer firefighter in a town of approx. 110,000 people in central Jersey. The town is only 33 square miles but getting around can be a b*tch! We are 100% volunteer so if we are delayed getting to the station the truck doesn't get out. The blue lights work and most people move over but some days, especially summer time at the lovely Jersey Shore, a siren would be a huge help. I installed a electronic air horn from Galls, which is legal, and it has made a world of difference. Stay Safe
    Volunteers in NJ can have an air horn in their POV's? I never knew that.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
    "Piney Power"

    Berkeley Emergency Response Team (B.E.R.T./Haz-Mat/WMD/CBRNE) Station 85
    Berkeley Township, New Jersey 08721

  19. #169
    Forum Member
    ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VolFirePaidEMS1 View Post
    I live in NJ and I wish the NJ laws were like some other states. I am a volunteer firefighter in a town of approx. 110,000 people in central Jersey. The town is only 33 square miles but getting around can be a b*tch! We are 100% volunteer so if we are delayed getting to the station the truck doesn't get out. The blue lights work and most people move over but some days, especially summer time at the lovely Jersey Shore, a siren would be a huge help. I installed a electronic air horn from Galls, which is legal, and it has made a world of difference. Stay Safe
    110,000??? Are you sh**ting me???

    I know places smaller than that who are full time.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  20. #170
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default

    i think all the states should be the same light laws...

    maybe..

    Blue = Fed
    Red = FD
    Blue/Red = PD

    i dunno.. lol it just seems kind of annoying when your a VF in NY and go out of state and would get in trouble for having a blue light in Maryland or another state because there light laws are different.

  21. #171
    Forum Member
    edge1317's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PineyPower View Post
    Volunteers in NJ can have an air horn in their POV's? I never knew that.
    He said electronic air horn, it comes on some sirens (most I thought). Sounds like an electronic fart. It doesn't move people any better for me.

  22. #172
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edge1317 View Post
    He said electronic air horn, it comes on some sirens (most I thought). Sounds like an electronic fart. It doesn't move people any better for me.
    I'm not a fan of this. In fact, i'm sure it's not legal.

    I'm not going to do the research, i'll just give you my opinion, so ignore if you like.

    It's not a regular automobile horn, so what is it? I would suggest it's an audible warning and would be considered a siren by law enforcement. So, you would need a permit for that.

    Even if it were considered an automobile horn, then I don't think it's legal to drive down the street honking your horn in such a fashion.

    All that aside, as a 22 year volunteer firefighter in NJ, I can tell you it really won't help all that much. Sure, it might clear cars, but getting to the station it won't make much difference timewise.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  23. #173
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    All that aside, as a 22 year volunteer firefighter in NJ, I can tell you it really won't help all that much. Sure, it might clear cars, but getting to the station it won't make much difference timewise.
    Chief,
    This plays into a lot of research I have done for our ambulance service on whether or not to run lights on every single call with the ambulance. My suggestion was to only run lights on true emergent calls. Research indicated that on average running lights and sirens on an ambulance saved around 40 seconds per run. 40 seconds with a clearly marked ambulance. If you are in a POV with an obnoxious sounding horn, how much time are you really going to save anyway.

  24. #174
    Forum Member
    Slaytallica45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Belle Mead, NJ
    Posts
    282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'm not a fan of this. In fact, i'm sure it's not legal.

    I'm not going to do the research, i'll just give you my opinion, so ignore if you like.

    It's not a regular automobile horn, so what is it? I would suggest it's an audible warning and would be considered a siren by law enforcement. So, you would need a permit for that.

    I wasn't able to find it in the quick search I just did, but I believe I have read somewhere that they define siren as an electronically produced wavering tone, where as the electric air horn is a non-wavering single tone and therefore isnt technically considered a siren. Like I said im not 100% on this, but I do have one installed in my car and it does help.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

  25. #175
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
    I wasn't able to find it in the quick search I just did, but I believe I have read somewhere that they define siren as an electronically produced wavering tone, where as the electric air horn is a non-wavering single tone and therefore isnt technically considered a siren. Like I said im not 100% on this, but I do have one installed in my car and it does help.
    Fair enough... like I said I didn't research this. Can you also say that it is considered a legal automobile horn? Also, is it legal to use an automobile horn in this fashion?

    Also, something that always concerned me.

    You have a call. 40 firefighters and maybe a handful of EMT's are going to their POV's and putting on blue lights (and in your case, using a loud audible signal) and driving to the firehouse. Then you have whatever number of fire, police, and ems vehicles also trying to find their way through traffic.

    At least with just using the blue light, the audible warnings are reserved for the marked units (with PD being the exception) and you eliminate some of the confusion over which vehicles other drivers expect to go through red lights, etc.

    Even with the blue light, I've found that drivers are confused and don't always know what to do.

    I don't know, just seems like a lot of chaos and noise for a fire alarm.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

+ Reply to Thread
Page 7 of 14 First ... 45678910 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register