Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs

NJ is Blue lights for fire and ems with no sirens. Chiefs and their 1st asst. use red and a siren. Green is for command.

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Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

Im from the great state of NJ as someone previously posted we FF/EMTs get blue lights line officers get red and sirens obeying all traffic laws as it is a courtasy light. For the most part you can get away with driving hot as long as your being cautious about it. I believe this is a law that has to be addressed on a higher level than the states to develop a national standard simply because all emergency workers are on the job 24/7 whether some of you believe it or not. How many of you out there watched Backdraft...remember this quote "the funny thing about firemen is, their always firemen." This could never be more true. Whether responding to a call your dispatched to or coming upon an incident you should be able to use the lights in the same way as if you were paid personel sitting at the building. I know as an EMT if i am to come uppon an accident it is my duty to make sure both of the occupants are alright and provide care if they need it. This being said if im in my personal vehicle on a highway I will most certinly be using my vehicle to protect myself and the patients on the scene and utilizing my warning lights to warn other motorists to slow down. Bottom line is if you say emergency workers dont need lights on whatever vehicle they use to respond to a building or scene then your also saying they dont need them on the apparatus (fire truck, ambulance, etc.) either.

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I dont know about in NJ, but in Ohio it isnt you "duty" to stop for an accident on the side of the road if you are in your personal vehicle, UNLESS it is in your jurisdiction and you have been dispatched to it (just an edit..going to a the station for the apparatus may also fall into your duty to act...so even then you dont have to stop in your POV). Just because you are an EMT doesnt mean you HAVE to stop at every accident you come across. Now morals are a different story I'm sure we all would stop to make sure someone is okay if we see an accident, but it is as a good samaritan and are not required to.

Problem is in some places people run lights in their POV's. How many of these people been trained to do that? I'm not 100 percent sure but aren't you supposed to take training classes on how to run lights when you're a rig shoffer? So shouldn't we worry about the basic firefighters who don't have this experience?

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Originally Posted by BillEMTff

Here in NY Fire Chiefs run red lightes and sirens, firefighters run blue lights (supose to be 1 rotating blue visable 360degrees) though this is not inforced so some run full size bar lights (rotating or strobe) some just run dash lights(not visible 360) some, like myself, run mini-bar lights, myself strobe, others rotating. EMS run green lights same rules as blue. It's been brought to may attention that EMTs, or higher, can run reds and siren if they respond primarily to the scene. I'm not to sure if this is correct? If anyone else knows the facts please feel free to correct me.

Thanks.

"Fire Department From HELL"

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Correct ff is blue/ blue white. ems is green/ green white, officers can run red with siren. i have a green mini light bar on top of my car for day time and at night i run my dash. with the light bar in the back window with a towel ofer the back end so i dont get flash back in it. First responders can run red also,but no siren, i belive i was told 3 diffrent things. we can also run wig wags and strobes,but collerd lenses i think. green or blue.
i know in europe,volly's arent allowed to run light's. atleast what i herd, we have no specheal(sp?) laws,we must do speed limit and aboy lights and stop signs.

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Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

I believe im not 100% sure but my understanding is it falls under the negligence and patient abandonment part of "EMS Laws". In basic terms if anyone or yourself identifies that you are an EMT whether it be from a sticker on your car to a patch on your shirt and there is someone in need of care, but you brush it off hey its not my town im not on duty its someone elses problem. Then someone says hey that guy was an EMT and did nothing you can get yourself jammed up big time in NJ even to the point of losing your cert. Then they can also sue you for negligence and patient abandonment. In NJ whether ur from this town, this county or what not your an NJ EMT which means you basicly took an oath to provide care to anyone in need.

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Let me just respond to that section. Your post was very long and a bit hard to read without paragraphs, but no big deal.

You are only under a duty to act if you are a paid emt and you are on shift in your jurisdiction or if you are a volunteer emt and you are "on call" in your jurisdiction.

However, that doesn't mean you can't get sued. I suppose anyone can sue you, but it doesn't mean they will win.

IF it was as you say, then if you are home sitting on your couch, why wouldn't you have a duty to act?

Just because you happened to be driving to pick up your sick grandmother to take her to her MD appt and came across an accident? See where this would go?

As for abandonment, if you had not started care, then you cannot abandon a patient. This is given the other point I made previously.

As for an oath, I took no oath when i completed my EMT. I took an oath as a firefighter, but we don't provide EMS.

The chief pretty much explained where I was going with this. And just to add on, as EMT's we operate under a doctors liscense. We cannot perform our duties alone. So if we were to happen to be somewhere where someone needed care, and we were not in our area, our protocols wouldnt apply anymore. Thos protocols apply for a run in our area on our squad...

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Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22

And just to add on, as EMT's we operate under a doctors liscense. We cannot perform our duties alone. So if we were to happen to be somewhere where someone needed care, and we were not in our area, our protocols wouldnt apply anymore. Thos protocols apply for a run in our area on our squad...

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Just remember that each state operates a little differently.

NJ has EMT-B's who do not operate under an MD license. However, they must operate within the scope of their certification, which is basic.

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Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

Now chief do you know where to find the laws or literature that would cover what were talking about? What I am going by is the lecture we recieved in the medical legal module of our EMT class which i finished i believe 3 years ago. What they preached to us is what i have explained above, that as EMTs were obligated to treat anyone in need and should we not we are completely liable. They didn't say anything about jurisdiction or paid vs. Volunteer. This could be due to an instructor trying to put scare tactics in and not knowing what he was talking about. Your completely right tho you can get sued for anything in this wonderfull country so even if it was the case that your not liable, but someone has the money to get a fancy lawyer to draw up a case of a bunch of loopholds and stretched out truths they have the right to do that. Just curious as to what you have cause ive been searching the net to try and find some sort of information as to the laws we fall under in NJ but i have not found anything thats any bit of a help.

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I don't know that you will find a state law that specific. It's probably case law? Although, I would check the state's "good samaritan law". I believe it's been changed in the last few years? My memory is a little fuzzy on this.

I will tell you that most EMT instructors don't know the law, they simply relay the "wive's tails" that they were taught. I'm no attorney, but I deal with them from time to time, and most lay people get their legal education from TV. Not the best source!

Do you have an obligation to assist? I think that morally you do, but again, that's my opinion. If you dont stop, are you breaking the law? No.

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Originally Posted by ChiefKN

I don't know that you will find a state law that specific. It's probably case law? Although, I would check the state's "good samaritan law". I believe it's been changed in the last few years? My memory is a little fuzzy on this.

I will tell you that most EMT instructors don't know the law, they simply relay the "wive's tails" that they were taught. I'm no attorney, but I deal with them from time to time, and most lay people get their legal education from TV. Not the best source!

Do you have an obligation to assist? I think that morally you do, but again, that's my opinion. If you dont stop, are you breaking the law? No.

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Thats what I am thinking to..morally you need to help...legally i dont think so.

And yeah we operate with protocols written by the MD, and usually call Med control to tell them what we have done. there is rare cases that we ask, we take our protocols and our judgement and based on how the pt is presenting is how we treat here. But all of our actions are still performed under our medical directors license.

Here in Arkansas anything gose but blue. Blue is for LE use only, and green is reserved for Emergency Management. You must have a siren in operation with lights and POV's are considered emergency vehicals when at or responding to emergencys...

VA-max two lights, must be forward facing, red/clear or just red...split colors in one light counts as two lights, no siren, no headlight, tailight or turn signal strobes, cant turn on hazard lights

VA-max two lights, must be forward facing, red/clear or just red...split colors in one light counts as two lights, no siren, no headlight, tailight or turn signal strobes, cant turn on hazard lights, vehicle does not have to be registered, courtsey light only, most guys jus have a light in the windshield

WV-red/clear/amber, in any combination, with any number of lights, headlight; tailight; turn signal strobes allowed, sirens allowed, vehicle must be registered with the state fire marshalls office, not allowed to run hazard lights...vehicle is a certified emergency fire dept vehicle after being registered, and is recognized by an inspection sticker looking sticker with the fire marsalls logo, dept number, and vehicle id number...sticker must be displayed in the front windshield...vehicle is allowed all traffic law exemptions given to actual fire trucks/ambulances

I have been a career FF here in NJ for over 30 years and I still have the problem of issuing any color light to someone who can't fully comprehend the consequenses of abusing the previlege. Just because you become a member of the local volunteer fire organization doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for the responsibility of a blue light certificate. Before we allow someone to drive our apparatus, we require them to have firefighting experience and driving experience. Most department I have had contact with do not allow their volunteers to drive during emergencies below the age of 21 (through by-laws). Then why would you put the same person in his POV on the same roadway with a blue light to wreck havoc on the general population. Joting down someones plate and call your local PD is not the answer when the blue lighter comes up behind the vehicle at excessive speed, overzealous response and an adreline level in the millions. Every second seems like hours and as the statute states, we, the firefighter with this previlege MUST obey all traffic laws also. Killing someone (firefighter or local taxpayer) getting to the fire doesn't help put the fire out quicker.

Please help me understand how these cities allow you to run lights without sirens. That seems like a huge liability issue to me. I think they need to see you and hear you. Michigan states your red/red-white light must be visible from 360 and have active siren when lights on. Also only able to drive 10 over the limit, most traffic in the areas around run that anyway so do they really do you any good.

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Originally Posted by ScottvilleFire

Please help me understand how these cities allow you to run lights without sirens. That seems like a huge liability issue to me. I think they need to see you and hear you. Michigan states your red/red-white light must be visible from 360 and have active siren when lights on. Also only able to drive 10 over the limit, most traffic in the areas around run that anyway so do they really do you any good.

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Different laws in different states.........As long as you follow your own states laws, you should have no liability.

I dont' think there's a provision in Oklahoma law for this.

Putting lights on your car in Silver City, Oklahoma will get you to the station at exacty the same time as without. The only thing you need to move off the road around here is my neighbor's guineas, and they don't care about the lights.

Matter of fact, if our firetrucks didn't have lights and sirens, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference. Just makes the dogs howl, mostly.

For volunteer POV's, in NJ we are only allowed to have blue lights. I think the maximum per vehicle is two blue lights and they have to be specifically situated in your car as per our statute. I have the excerpt in my Firefighter 1 book for all of our specifications. Emergency vehicles, however, can have blue lights, red lights, and sirens.

Volunteers who live in Long Island, New York, can have as followed: Blue/White light(s) in front, along with strobes, and any color combination in the back, along with strobes. As far as I know, the NYS Law says 1 blue light per POV, but I don't know anyone who follows that law. Sirens are not permitted on your POV unless you are a chief, and only chiefs and commissioners can run red lights in the front of their POV. Although sirens are not allowed, some depts. allow members to have air horns... I personally don't have one, but I think all depts. should REQUIRE their members to get them, seeing how they affectively get people to move over.