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  1. #1
    Lgreeves
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Charge for MVA's

    Does your department charge for MVA's?
    If you are a district do you only charge those not in the district?
    What is the charge?

    ------------------
    Larry Greeves
    Firefighter
    Monroe City Fire/Rescue


  2. #2
    tony peric
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    My county in a whole charges for all MVA's that a dept. goes on.My dept.averages 200 to 250 MVA's a year.We cover a busy U.S. RT. and many ST.RT's also We gather personal and insurance information from the drivers involved and send it in to our billing service. Our fees are as follows:
    response with traffic control,clean up is 25.00,service such as EMS assist,the use of oil dry, assist the wrecker companies and light extracation is 50.00, an extracation with heavy tools is 100.00,also 25.00 per hr. we are on scene.
    Commercial vehicles double the above amounts.
    Any money collected goes into its own account.We average 5,000 to 10,000 a year.
    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    MetalMedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    You charge to make Emergency Responses????

    Who do you charge in an MVA? The person who was at fault.. or everyone who was involved?

    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

  4. #4
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Our Company bills the insurance companies for services rendered....Equipment used and operations performed and so on...Not sure exactly the numbers but we turned over quite a substancial amount to our town last year with over 200 accident responses

  5. #5
    bob1350
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I can't believe you charge for services. The only thing we charge for are hazmat calls. We also get compensated from the county and feds on wildland fires (manpower hours and equipment hours, etc.)I think we should charge for fire alarms due to equipment malfunctions. The problem on our dept. with charging any fees is that this money goes right into the City's general fund and we won't see any of it!

  6. #6
    WOODMAN
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    I hate to be the one who gives the bills out to the people in these towns.I can not see or approve of sending bills out,unless it is a haz-mat case,any of these guys who bill these people to your department get any publice funding?

  7. #7
    JMP17
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    I can't see charging folks for MVAs, we do pretty much as Bob stated Haz-mat and forestry and I know alot of Dept.s charge for a ride on the bus but we aint got one.
    Stay SAFE!
    JMP17

  8. #8
    RSQLT43
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Hell, Ill give people money to wreck so that we can extricate them!!!

  9. #9
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Yep, can't see charging for an emergency call <-- Tounge in cheek there!

    Ambulance -- $250
    Paramedic -- $400 (roughly)(if used)
    Helicopter -- $3,000 (roughly)(if used)
    ER Visit -- Don't even want to speculate
    Of course, the above per patient...
    Wrecker -- $100, per car...
    Failure to Travel in an Established Lane Ticket, $250 (guessing here...)
    Bill for replacing the telephone pole with Electric, Telephone, and Cable workers all on Overtime...don't know, but would like their paychecks that week.
    Increased Insurance Premiums -- priceless...

    Anyway, for all of those who express shock and horror at the thought of charging for emergency services...well, it's already expensive enough the F.D. bill isn't that much more..

    Fire protection (most areas) is funded by real estate taxes, and predominantly is off-set (in theory) by reduced fire insurance rates. So you shouldn't charge the taxpayer for their house or car fire...you could argue about cars passing through your district, but then again they might catch the grass on fire, so ya gotta put 'em out anyway.

    MVAs outside of those on fire is just an extra un-funded service

    Matt
    (btw, no we don't charge for MVAs or other services...but all ambulance runs are billed out)

  10. #10
    SNOWMAN
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We'll bill for anything that we think we have even a remote chance of collecting on....including MVA's. The insurance companies typically tell us that they won't reimburse FD response unless there has been a fire or extrication. Their reasoning is that for anything other than the above, we're nothing more than window dressing. Hey folks, the taxes for Volunteer FD's, (if that's how you are funded) that are collected, allow you to MAKE a response.....they provide the station, the apparatus, the utilities, the PPE, the training. Beyond that, it needs to be user funded to offset response costs. Hypothetically, if everyone in your protection area required your services in a year, you would soon run out of money unless you required reimbursement for response.

  11. #11
    Looper
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We had a debate on this a couple of years ago and decided not to bill for MVAs. Some departments around here do, and the argument was basically "why not?, its there for the taking".

    We decided not to because:
    1. All the fire departments in the area are tax funded in one way or another. Everyone is already paying to support a fire department.
    2. The huge number of uninsured drivers in the Houston area called into question the ability to actually collect a large percentage of the fees.
    3. We didn't NEED the money. Yes, a few thousand dollars extra each year would have been nice, but not at the expense of the public's good will. The community voted to increase our funding a few years ago, and will probably do so again in another few years.

    Its hard to ask people for a tax increase when they are getting nickel & dimed every time a fire truck rolls out of the station. Most people consider MVAs and rescues to part of the fire department's regular services -- that they are already paying for.

    Currently, we only charge for HAZMAT and excessive automatic alarms (false).

  12. #12
    tony peric
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey guys,hope I did'nt make anyone mad with my response.Our county commission and County emergency services office came up with this plan.No F.D. in the county had to bill if they did not want to, but all do. You would be surprised at how many F.D.'s in W.Va. do bill. Many of our neighboring depts.in Ohio are very interested in billing. My dept. is funded by the State,county,and city,along with donations.The state government was asked about F.D.'s billing for MVA's and fires,they had no problem with it.I personally think that with buget cut's and the skyrocketing cost of equipment a lot more dept's across the country will start billing. One more thing,during our TIC fund raising drive I met with the local Rotary club.They were more interested in why we did not bill for fires than the camera. Our MVA money has allowed us to buy 2 new sets of Amkus tools and allowed for some money to go towards a new rescue truck.I believe we are actually putting the money back in the community with this new equipment.
    Thanks for reading,yours in life safety
    TONY PERIC

  13. #13
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Whoa !! Hold the Phone....There are some guys who have replied that they only bill for Haz-Mat and Wildland Fires.....At the scene of an MVA the last time I checked ....Anti-Freeze, Transmission Fluid, Oil, and Gasoline are considered Haz-Mat and need to be cleaned up and dispossed of in a proper manner....Our Billing goes through either the persons Auto {in the case of MVA} or Home Owners Insurance {Structure Fires in which case Fire Dept. Bill is $500.00 } Even if the place caves in and we exhaust every piece of hose/equipment....Who get's billed for Wildland Fires ? I also can say that we don't bill at every incident unless thier is substancial fluids to be cleaned up or the house fire actually has reportable damage --- In 1999 We responded to 420 Alarms and reported maybe 175 to insurance companies for claims

  14. #14
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    For bob1350...

    We too don't see dime one for the claims we submit...Our Boro gets it...Hell we just got a new/used Chief's Car...A Ford Explorer with close to 80,000 Miles on it and getting that was like pulling teeth Boro claims funds were tight and a new Fire Chief's Car was not priority yet the Chief of Police got a new Car...Boro got two New Police Cars and a New Police Station....We turned over around $18,000.00 in claims last year and can't even get a decent vehicle for the Chief

  15. #15
    Catch
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    My department has discussed this recently so I have a question or two myself. Do you guys that charge only charge those who are not tax paying residents, or charge anyone? I'm also curious on how your state laws back you on this. The way our department is set up is taxes in city limits and rural dues outside of the city. We charge for structure fires to nonmember rural residents unless they are a member of another dept. Charging for MVC's is something we're considering also.

  16. #16
    HYTHE FIRE DEPARTMENT
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Our department has just started in the extrication game.

    Our Department is located in a small village of 650 people. In Canada, the municipality must mandate in writing the level of service provided by the fire department for the taxes paid by the residents. We also provide fire suppresion service for the county (450 sq miles) and in return they give us $20,000 cdn to do this. The village gives us $2,000 to operate with. The county only provides fire suppression service to their tax payers. All other services provided by our department are over and above the legally expected level of service we have to provide.

    Thus, we are not allowed to charge for fire suppresion services in the county or the village. However, as extrication services are a bonus service to the tax payers, we are allowed to bill the insurance companies for our service.

    All vehicles are required to have the type of insurance which would cover our billing. If the driver does not have insurance, not only will he/she be facing our bill, he will also be facing a $2,000 fine for driving without insurance. We charge a flat fee of $250 cdn for an extrication.

    Our department raised 100% of the funds to purchase the new unit and tools. No tax dollars were spent on the project. Thus, I don't see anything wrong with charging for our bonus services.

    My 2 cents.

  17. #17
    BigBoss
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The Village Board (of which I am a member) just recently instituted a policy of charging for responses to MVAs as well as car fires that involve vehicles that are owned by motorists who reside out of our jurisdiction. The policies are quit lenghty and for obvious reasons I am not going to print them here in their entire text.

    My community has many miles of major highways going thru it. Most MVAs that we respond to involve people who do not even reside in this state let alone this community, they are simply passing thru. My question is how much do they provide to the department in the form of tax dollars? Absolutely ZERO.

    I do not want to sound uncharitable, but everyone else - with the exception of the police (and there is some talk of them charging) charges substanially for services rendered at an MVA. The taxpayers of our local communities are constantly being hit with increases, by adoption of this policy we are looking just to help ease the burden a bit.



    ------------------
    Brian K. Savage
    Fire Commissioner
    Swanton, VT


  18. #18
    Pompiere
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    Thank You Brian Dunlap. Anyone who says they charge for Haz-Mat but not MVA's isn't considering that a MVA is a Haz-Mat. the feds say any leak, spill,potentail leak, potential spill, ect. is a haz-mat. All MVA's are potential leaks of DOT listed materials until proven otherwise. This is why all responders must be at the Operations level to even respond. (never happen but thats OSHA's take)
    My department doesn't bill, yet, but many of us view it as another way nto offset the cost of doing business. In Maine all motor vehicle must be insured, so why not bill everyone if you have insurance great if not, to bad you had no legal right to be on the road. Of they cars passing through your distict how many are paying taxes there?
    A dept. close to mine does bill and has no problems colleting from insurance companies, we're all paying for it in our insurance bills, its a service the company charges you for the potential they'll have to pay. The only ones making out good when no billing takes place is the insurance companies, who are just below lawyers on the scale of meaninful life.

    This of course is the only opinion to have if your me, if not form your own.

  19. #19
    Dr. Law
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Being a lawyer, I try to make all rescue calls so I can pass out my cards.
    (JUST KIDDING)
    Our dept. does not charge for rescue runs, only for fires occuring outside city limits.
    We cover an area of the county not otherwise covered by a Fire Protection District.

    [This message has been edited by Dr. Law (edited September 13, 2000).]

  20. #20
    CAPTAIN WHO
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    MVA's - We are covered by the Deparment of transport on Any MVA. They set the rate. $250.00 for each responding unit for the 1st hour (usually a pumper and a rescue) EMS same. $250.00 for ever hour there after regardless of the number of units. Plus costs of consumable tools used.

    We bill out residential fires at the same rates. However we bill to the insurance companies only. We do not bill the home owner. If there is no insurance or the $ cap was less than expences we do not recover from the homeowner. Mutual Aid calls are billed back to the requesting departments on a cost recovery basis only. If they cant pay we dont worry about it.

    These are basically cost recovery methods only. If the insurance doesn't come through we leave it lay.

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