1. #1
    Ryan Meeks
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post Tanker Shuttle Info for training/ISO rating

    Rural VFD in Tennessee needs information on tanker shuttles and relays for training and to improve ISO rating and also looking for surplus equipment for ISO rating


  2. #2
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Here is some info:

    Rural Water Supplies

    Question: We don’t have a water system outside of our community. How does ISO™ credit areas without water?

    My Answer: In most cases the Municipal Grading Schedule only covers buildings within 1000 feet of a hydrant. ISO™ will allow up to 85% of your community to be without a water supply and still attain one rating community wide. When 15% is exceeded two ratings are given ie. 4/9, 5/8 etc. When you’re beyond 1000’ different rules apply. Rarely will the field rep suggest a demonstration type rating. It is essential to do a thorough complete analysis before you attempt to solve the rural water supply issue. If you get a lousy rural grade it could drop the entire community grade. If you solve the rural water issue ISO™ will award one grade community wide five miles from your station or out to a specified distance from certain stations or hydrants. ISO™ will credit tanker delivery in intervals of ˝ mile and hose lays to 500 feet. So if all you can do is expand your 1000 foot hydrant rating with hose to 1500 feet it is worth the effort.

    There are four ways to lower your rural rating using what is known as Fire Department Supply (FDS). Don’t be surprised if the ISO™ guy doesn’t know much if anything about Fire Department Supply (FDS) grading. Most of them don’t do it very often, if ever. If the community fire department extends fire protection outside of its borders it will have one rating and the rural area another. Such as a 4/9, 5/9 or 7/9. The first rating is for the community the second is for the rural area. Over 33% of all fire departments best grade is a class 9.

    1) Any municipal fire department who relies on hydrants for supply and comes up a little short in supply or area hydrants can make use of relays, draft sites, tanker shuttles, cistern, and the like to make up the difference. You’ll need to prove you can move at least 250 gpm for two hours. A little town in Colorado was deficient in hydrant flow and relied on a combination of tanker shuttles and apparatus at draft from a river supplying 5” hose to distance fire scenes to get all 35 water supply points.

    2) If your responding from town you’ll almost certainly insure the area within 5 miles of the station will receive a Class 9 covering approximately 19.6 square miles instead of a Class 10 if you did not respond. In some parts of the country a Class 9 will cover 10 miles from the station.

    What is the difference between a Class 9 and a Class 10? A Class 9 is a rural department with written evidence that there are four firefighters one of whom is called chief, that you train 2 hours every 2 months, and have some sort of dispatch system. You’ll need a brush truck with the following minimum specifications; a 300 gallon tank and a 50 gpm pump at 150 psi. You’ll also need the following; provide 250 feet of any size hose, a fog nozzle, two fire extinguishers, a roof ladder and a 24’ ladder, one axe, a pike pole, a bolt cutter, a claw tool, a crow bar, two flashlights. If you have at least 70% of the equipment you get an ISO™ 9 five road miles in all directions from where the vehicle is housed. It does not have to be a fire station. It can just be a heated barn, shed or even parked in a business if a written agreement exists. There is no excuse to have an ISO™ 10. Simply dispersing your fleet will allow more class 9’s. The more stations and brush trucks the larger the area receiving creditable protection.

    3) If you live in the 6 western states, have everything for a ISO™ 9 plus prove you can move 200 gpm for 20 minutes without interruption within five minutes of arriving on-scene and you’ll end up with a ISO™ Dwelling 8 Rating in certain areas of the country.(this applies to the six western states only)
    A 4000 gallon tanker with a 250 gpm pump with a few compartments and brackets to carry the required gear is the simplest way of a achieving a Class 8. Any combination of apparatus with 4000 gallons water from stations as far away as 8 miles will work. When more than one vehicle responds no less than 5 firefighters must respond. Automatic aid units can contribute. An NFPA 1901 engine must all respond and be housed within 8 miles.

    If your department runs more than a brush truck you shouldn’t have a Class 9! Simply contact the ISO™ for their Supplemental Criteria for a Residential Dwelling 8 rating. Fill it out, send it in and demonstrate you can do it and you are a Class 8! If you space out 4000 gallons of water throughout your area to insure 5 mile road mile coverage you can offer Class 8 residential protection throughout your area. You can buy all the fire trucks you want to buy but if you don’t show up with 4000 gallons your not going to change your rating. Some parts of the country enjoy 8 mile Class 8 protection from the fire station.

    Clay County Florida mirrors many areas of the country by simply dropping to a Class 8 from a Class 9 saves at least 35% of the home insurance premium or $178 every on a 60,000 dollar home and $479 on a 175,000 home. That savings is every year for the next 10 to 15 years depending upon the rating period. When was the last time you ever guaranteed you could save everyone in the community money if they contributed to fire protection improvements?

    4) For ratings of Class 7 or better (in the 6 western states) or 8 or better (in the other 43 states) five miles from the station you’ll have to demonstrate you have the ability to move a minimum of 250 gpm or more without interruption for at least 2 hours the ISO™ way. If you cannot prove your ability to move 250 gpm for 2 hours you’re going to stay a Class 9 or if you live in the 6 western states a Class 8 if you proved 200 gpm for 20 minutes. You can own all the fire trucks on earth but if they are not properly spaced and the amount of water moving ability does not match ISO™ criteria you will not effect your rating a bit! The entire 100 point rating is exactly the same except for the 40 point water portion. Thirty five of the points are for the actual amount of water moved and 5 points are for maintenance, type of supply, debris in water, ice removal, etc. Communications can get all 10 points and the fire department can score all 50 but they two will not count if you can’t move at least 250 gpm sustained for 2 hours. Where the city relies on a municipal water system the rural area has to rely on the fire departments demonstrated ability to supply water. The water can be provided from any water movement concept you can think of, shuttles, relays, cisterns, pump houses, lots of nurse tankers, hydrants, draft sources and/or any combination of these. If you commit one unsafe act during the demonstration or lose water the demonstration ends and you will not be allowed to demonstrate water movement again for one year. Your rating will remain what it was before ISO™ arrived. Some ISO™ guys tell you they will simply leave and you can contact them in 6 months or a year depending upon what area of the country you reside to see if they can work you into their schedule. This is serious business and you need to operate safely and be ready! What are the savings? In Clay County a Class 6 offers $17 to $40 per home. A Class 4 saves an additional $17 to $40 per home. These class reductions do not sound like much by themselves but when multiplied by the number of homes and over the rating time period they represent approximately $54 million dollars in Clay County. This is the easiest money anyone will ever offer the fire service! Your new earned rating of Class 7 or better will extend 5 miles from the fire station approximately 19.6 square miles plus, you’ll now have a Class 9 that extends out to 10 miles from the station instead of 5 miles. That effectively quadruples the insured area coverage of the fire station or stations to approximately 78.5 square miles. Just another excellent reason to prove you can move water.


    The first step is to figure how much water you need to move and where. The simplest way to do that is to order a copy of your communities Batch List from ISO™ ™. It will provide a listing of various businesses in and out of town and what the fire flow requirements are for each. Mark each property on a scale map and then indicate similar or larger sized buildings as well. You are only responsible for fire flows to 3500 gpm. If it turns out you have a fire flow of 2000 gpm it is time to figure out how to get that amount of water on-scene.

    You’ll need letters from a registered engineer certifying which bridges and roads can and cannot safely carry all fire apparatus. They also need to be certified as all weather. You’ll also need an engineer to certify 50 year drought and freeze cycles and flows for all static water supplies like streams, ponds, and ditches. Cisterns and other static supplies must hold at least 30,000 gallons and be capable of flows of 250 gpm if you want them to count. Everything should be designed for increments of 30,000 gallons and 250 gpm intervals of flow. These sources should appear on a map. U. S. Geological Survey section maps will show all structures, roads, out buildings, streams, ponds, ditches, canals, railroads, and bridges. You just need to label the color code the map with your important information. Also, indicate fire station locations and measure road miles for 1 1/2 miles, 2 1/2 miles and 5 road miles in all directions from the station. A rolling ruler works best. Measure the distance from each large structure on the batch list and from other significant buildings to a water supply point or points and each station responding. Making circles on the map that indicate likely hose lays. It will simplify determining shuttle and relay areas later. Record these distances on the Batch List for future reference. Only buildings within 5 road miles of the fire station count even if they are on the Batch List. Make all notes simple enough that a non-firefighter can understand them. Because that is who will be reviewing them.

    You’ll be asked to provide a list of fires, demonstrations, or drills where you have demonstrated moving more than 250 gpm more than 1000 feet from a hydrant. Make sure you include several that represent each type of water movement(hose lays, shuttles, drafting, etc.)

    The first and most important step in credit by demonstration is the ability to prove everything you say you can do. That is why a video camera or cameras should record every drill and be used to document all times. ISO™ often times each step in an event. When it is all done it will take longer to conduct the exercise in steps than it will in real time. They will fully credit your times and video if they can verify the data. A number of still photos should be taken and used in conjunction with simple time function charts to allow your documentation to make sense to the reader after the ISO™ leaves your community. Demonstration is always based upon a maximum five minute response time from the station which is five miles for ISO™ purposes and the ability to flow 250 gpm without interruption within 5 minutes of arrival on the fire scene through 200 feet of attack line with the clock starting when you arrive 200 feet from the water source or fire site. If you can increase the flow beyond 250 gpm within 10 minutes of flowing water you will be credited that amount. If your fire flow is 2000 gpm and you can move 1000 gpm sustained you’ll get 50% credit for water or 17.5 out of the 35 possible points. In this example if everything else was in order you could get a Class 4 rating without hydrants. The greater number of points in water the higher the potential ISO™ rating. Are their volunteer departments without a water system with an ISO™ Class 4? Yes there are! Beatty, NV, Dolores, CO, Apple Valley, CA , Prospect Heights, IL, Fallon, NV, Loveland, CO and Collegedale, TN.

    [This message has been edited by LHS* (edited October 14, 2000).]

  3. #3
    Firehouse.com Guest


    2 things....

    1) HOLY S***! That was a big response...

    2) There is a free guide available at http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/7873/ISO.html

    Dunno if that is gonna help you at all, but good luck.

  4. #4
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Think you'll find Adze that the big post above was right out of the site you listed...being their both by the same guy

    The quicker link is www.isoslayer.com for future reference...

  5. #5
    Firehouse.com Guest


    The article that LHS quoted involved the water shuttle operations right here in Wayne County (Notice that Orrville #64 was 4th in efficiency...). If you want to talk to someone involved in the operation, call 330-698-FIRE and leave a message for Jim Shriver, Parker Browne or even John Sprunger to call you (be sure you leave a phone number). Any questions you have, I am sure they can answer.

    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

  6. #6
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Yeah, I figured as much...

    Well, I discovered isolayer.com after I had posted that...

    Just goes to show that I didn't read the post from LHS or bother looking to see who sent it...

  7. #7
    Firehouse.com Guest


    If you really want a training session on Rural Water Supply let me know. My old fire department had a whole class on how to figure the time that it takes to get the water moved and how much water that you need based on fire load. I still have the book so if you need just E-mail me and I will see about getting you a copy.


    Keep your head below the smoke but in the game.

  8. #8
    J Almon
    Firehouse.com Guest


    Larry's take on dwelling 8 classification is correct. We tried it with our dept, but ISO doesn't recognize a dwelling 8 in Tennessee. We still roll enough equipment to comply since suppressing the fire for residents is the main objective.
    Ryan, I have some shuttle material you may be intersted in seeing if you'll email me directly.

  9. #9
    Firehouse.com Guest


    //ISO doesn't recognize a dwelling 8 in Tennessee.

    They will next spring, it is caled a Class 8B

  10. #10
    Firehouse.com Guest



    Are there any other new states that will be rated with the ISO Dwelling 8 or the 8B ratings?

    How can we obtain information on the requirements for this rating?

  11. #11
    Firehouse.com Guest


    FEMA has a good video that is VERY basic. It is called Operation Water - NFES2296. We ordered it from their website at www.usfa.fema.gov It might give you some ideas to start.

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