04-04-2001, 10:07 PM #1sohardyFirehouse.com Guest
What about our HOSTAGES in China?
Yes, I use the word hostages, that's what I think they are. I think Bush has been just about patient enough. Nearly the time to pull the gloves off, after all these are American servicemen and women. I know there are alot of geopolitical ramifications, but I'm getting a bit ****ed. How do you feel?
04-05-2001, 12:58 AM #2Engine 101Firehouse.com Guest
We talk to China one last time, Let the Reverend Jessie Jackson talk some sense into the chinnesse he did it with the Bosnians, If China still says no I say we go in and rescue them and destroy the plane if nesecary,
04-05-2001, 01:30 AM #3mongofire_99Firehouse.com Guest
Hard nose is all they'll understand. Don't kiss their a@s, sometimes you got to wait these things out. We could shut down for 400+ days like we did with the Iran hostages and show the world that we're at the mercy of terrorists or we can rock on and play hardball. No negotiations, no Carter, no jackson (you were kidding right?).
- Cancel permanent trade relations
- Withdraw all diplomats from China
- Expell all Chinese diplomats from US
- Hold all of their imports at sea, do not let them dock anywhere in US
- Close the Long Beach yard and other areas they own
- Freeze all Chinese assets
This is their fault, not ours and they know it. The E3 prop job that's as big as a commercial airliner won't turn hard enough or fast enough to hit the supersonic agile as a cat Chinese F8. The E3 was in international air space and knew where the fighters were from the time they took off.
Sit back and wait. This is an easy win. Their economy goes to hell if they don't. They can't beat us in a shooting war so they won't do anything stupid.
04-05-2001, 01:33 AM #4CollegeBuffFirehouse.com Guest
I still can't believe that the Chinease think that they're going to get away woth the same things now that they were when they had slick willy in their back pocket.
They return the crew forthwith and posthaste. I don't think they're crazy enough to keep them much longer. Arrangements made to repair the plane to airworthiness, at which time an American crew flies it home. If they don't want to give it back, a Tomahawk will do nicely. Sure, they've already gotten out of it everything they're going to get. But it's the principle. They might not like a Tomahawk dropping out of the sky and landing on their airfield, but they shoulda thought of that before they violated international law.
If they don't return the crew, well, that's what we pay the SEALs the big bucks for.
04-05-2001, 02:58 AM #5MikellFirehouse.com Guest
Let the diplomatic avenues work. Although it was no accident that our surveillence aircraft was hit, the last thing we as the USA needs to do is launch an offensive attack, especially against China. It undoubtedly will become WW3 if we do. A lot of third world countries are just chomping at the bit to engage a backed battle against us. I say no to launching any type of assault.
04-05-2001, 07:51 AM #6ALSfirefighterFirehouse.com Guest
As a Marine Corps veteran, my heart goes out to the families and the crew. The fact of the matter is, the Chinese Jet hit our plane. With their record of abuse, and inhumanity you think they would be jumping at an oppurtunity to let them go. We just started trading with those idiots which I don't really agree with either. I never had a fondness for Communists, or the France. But come on, they were in International Airspace over International Water. Anyway that's enough venting. Thank you for whoever posted this!! LOL
The above is my opinion and rambling only, and doesn't reflect that of any dept./agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.
04-05-2001, 01:45 PM #7FireRebelFirehouse.com Guest
I agree with you Mike....I am an ex- Navy Man and it sickens me to see this going on, I too have never had a liking for the Chinese BUT I assure you we start talking Air- rades and any other assualts I can not imagine the ramifications not just here in the US but world-wide..we are not dealing with the Iraqi's now..Some of the tactics Mongo spoke of would hurt them much more than us trying to flex a little military power...God speed to our men and women over there..
04-05-2001, 04:27 PM #8RJEFirehouse.com Guest
No, W won't be sending in a Tomahawk to destroy the plane, for several reasons:
1) Precision munitions are good, but not that good. Yes, we can hit the plane. But we don't care about destroying "the plane". Shoot, you can buy a commercial version if you really want one. It's the special electronics! They're small and light, and while they wouldn't "work" after experiencing 1500# of HE at close range, they won't be "destroyed" either. They'd be scattered. And that won't stop the Chinese engineers from reverse engineering them. But it's really not the hardware anyway. The really sensitive stuff is the data, which was trashed by the crew before landing.
2) The plane may not be there. A Tomahawk is unmanned. You plan a mission to a "point". Move the plane, the missile hits it's point perfectly, and we've put a hole in their ramp. You don't even have to move it far. You just have to move it at the right time. (After the satellite pass, before the missile hits). As far as that goes, build a mockup. As long as it "looks" like a P-3 from space, the mission planners won't know.
3) Don't try it with an F/A-18 either. Yeah, smart bombs are just as good at "precise" strikes as Tomahawks, but it's still hard to tell a plane from a mockup @ 600 knots. And you can bet no flier is going to "slow down" with a bunch of "crazy" F-8 pilots buzzing them - when the F-8's can't keep from colliding with a P-3 doing 200 knots flat & level, what's it gonna be like when they're trying to shoot you down? For all we know, they may have a technique of ramming rather than shooting!
They're just testing W to see if he's another slick willie. He won't cave, and they'll decide he's not, then they'll let the crew come home. And we won't worry about the plane (although we'll take it if they offer).
04-05-2001, 05:18 PM #9NJJRFF17Firehouse.com Guest
1st-My deepest sympathy goes out to the families of the downed crew.
Now i'm gonna give my personal opinion on the subject at hand. I feel that if we were to go into a shooting war with China, we would have a real tough time beating them. All the technology that we have, with smart bombs, missiles, and all that good stuff, would help if we were fighting the Chinese. But, no matter how many missiles we shoot at them, or bombs we drop on them, we will still have to fight on the ground, and fighting on the ground means people will die. When China has an army with 1,000,000+ soldiers, that means A LOT of people will die. We would lose a lot of good soldiers if we did fight them. So, i don't think attacking them is such a good idea, and the last thing we need is a WW3. The moment i heard that we declared war on China, I'd join the army to go fight, but i'm not to anxious to fight an army of over 1,000,000. I want to go in there and take back our men just as much as the next guy, I just don't think that it is the best way to handle this. Like Mongo said, if their economy is ruined, they'll release the crew.
[This message has been edited by NJJRFF17 (edited 04-05-2001).]
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