Thread: This poor guy

  1. #26
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    Thats right BOX..We DONT know what he was looking at. So how can you say that he should be fired?

  2. #27
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    I think the firing is a little harsh. I would not be opposed to loss of rank and a written letter of termination waiting to be signed for two years following this incident (porn probation). Althought the sites he visited does make a difference to me anal.com is quote different than playboy.com

    Is it possible the lady was not spooping. Maybe she wanted to visit a site she had been too earlier in the day and found all these offensive (to some) url's... Guys how many of you would have a crap attack if you found gay porn or a bunch of url's with homosexually themed names(I wouldn't turn anybody in but I would be offended).

    The files may not have been intentionally saved. Your web browser caches images and the history. Both of these can and should be deleted when you are done browsing the internet.

    I dont surf porn at work but I do go to some health sites and research various things that I dont want everyone to know about. I simply clear the browser cache and history for the day and then give the computer to the next user.

    Anyway to make a long post simple. I think there is more to the story.... Stay Safe

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    To MikeHunt:
    That comment was totally uncalled for.
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

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    Originally posted by apatrol
    Is it possible the lady was not spooping. Maybe she wanted to visit a site she had been too earlier in the day and found all these offensive (to some) url's... Guys how many of you would have a crap attack if you found gay porn or a bunch of url's with homosexually themed names(I wouldn't turn anybody in but I would be offended).
    The point is not so much that she was "snooping". The point is that she saved the "History" files, brought them to someone's attention, and fingered the LT as the guy who was on the computer. That's a muttley thing to do, I don't care if the LT was looking at porn or not.

    If Kordecki's THAT offended by "offensive URLs" (not the actual pics or text, mind you, just the Internet-address URLs), then it sounds like she's working in the wrong place. The language that gets thrown around a firehouse can be, and often is, much worse than what you might see in a random X-rated URL.

    I suspect, and this of course is pure conjecture, that the lady had a problem with the LT, and saw an opportunity to burn him. I simply can't imagine a medic, with all of the horror, death, nudity, and raw side of life that they see on a daily basis, would actually be profoundly offended because she saw "www.upmybutt.com" or something to that effect in an IE browser history. It doesn't compute. It sounds more like she saw an opportunity, and took it.
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    Little Miss EMT

    Who are you to say if something is uncalled for or not. This is a forum for all opinions. Go back to your liitle classroom. You don't have any capacity to declare a comment innapropriate or not especially when you have signatures that bash firefighters and then have to recant and apologise. Oh and if you don't know whaty recant means. It is what i did when i took back my women bashing statement. But listening to your babble might make me change my mind

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    He was looking at pornography and there are several types of pornographry. Irregardless of which type, he is wrong. My point was that he might be looking at child porn. Would you still defend him so?

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    Originally posted by theboxalarm
    He was looking at pornography and there are several types of pornographry. Irregardless of which type, he is wrong. My point was that he might be looking at child porn. Would you still defend him so?
    Might, could have, maybe...

    Who exactly is defending this guy, and why ask people to defend a hypothetical situation?

    I don't think anyone is really saying that the guy is completely blameless. But what the medic did was really low down. And since we're speculating and throwing around "mights" here, I think that the medic MIGHT have had something against the LT.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    Halligan125-

    If it's gonna makeyou happy, then I will retract what I said. I apologize for what I said, alright?
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

    All the views, comments, etc expressed herein are mine and not those of my training program or my employer.

    "You can't make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?"
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  9. #34
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    Looking at the situation again, I believe that the FF shouls not be fired, but instead, at the most, be suspended for a little while and receive a demotion.

    And, the lady, she probably did want to set him up b/c you have to use a certain process to view the history and make any changes to it. Whether she had a gruge against him or not, I am not going to speculate. All I will say is that she is a snoop and probably did want to set him up.
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

    All the views, comments, etc expressed herein are mine and not those of my training program or my employer.

    "You can't make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?"
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    I have a problem with "zero tolerance" policies. They give people whose job should be making tough decisions an easy out.

    Regardless, the policy exists in this situation. Was the person in question looking at material that violated policy? If yes, then he should be diciplined. But did anyone actually SEE this alleged violation happen? More questions than answers here.

    I agree that past performance should be a factor in dicipline. I also don't really care if his behavior would have been acceptable in the station before the policy went into effect, because it just isn't a factor here. And anybody, male or female, that would make an effort (and she did) to have someone diciplined over an issue like this is no one I want to work with. I hope she's been working on that transfer paperwork...
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    Talking

    I don't think anyone is really saying that the guy is completely blameless. But what the medic did was really low down. And since we're speculating and throwing around "mights" here, I think that the medic MIGHT have had something against the LT.
    Bucks,

    I agree. Perhaps she has it in for him and she was able to get him. However, it was his fault alone that he broke that policy, no one else. As for the medic, I am not defending her methods. I would not want to work beside her. My last comment on this thread: "The Lt. was wrong and because of that he should be punished. The medic should move on to a different job. I should now be quite.

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    Mike Hunt~
    You're a funny guy... and i like the name.
    try it you'll like it

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    Silver City 4,

    Well said. Superior Officers should be trained and are paid to take care of personnel issues. In order for a policy to be fair, it must be followed. At one point or another a zero tolerance policy will not be enforced due to nepotism, friendships, or the fear of a lawsuit. My opinion is that a policy that gives the superior and or a committee of superiors the ability to review each case for what it really is, and hand out just punishments would be the best policy.

  14. #39
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    Bucks and I have butted heads on more then one occasion, but I am in complete agreement with him. Box, if you have been a firefighter for more then a few years,then you know a firehouse is not a monastery or a girl scout camp. If the Lt was looking at porn and got caught downloading stuff or meeting little boys online, thats one thing. We do not have enough info to end a 20 year career. Especially if there is some kind of personality conflict between him and the paramedic in question. How many times have you clicked on a link and gotten an unexpected eyeful? It happens. Zero tolerence is falling out of favor nationwide for the reasons stated in previous postings. I would hope that this guy catches a break and gets off(no pun intended ) with only a suspension.

  15. #40
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    I was on the firehouse's internet computer a week ago and was scanning the "fairly new pumper woohoo!" thread. Someone posted a link to a site and called it "Woody's Family Photo album" or something like it. I clicked on it and lo and behold, it was smut city! When you try to exit one of those sites, it just leads you to another one, and so on.

    I could not remember my password at the time, so I could not post on the forums that putting that link up was a really stupid thing to do, as someone could get into some serious trouble over an accidental mouse click to what appears to be a humorous site really stupid thing to do, especially with "zero tolerance".

    In reference to the topic at hand...

    If the fire offcier in question was violating Department policy, he should be disciplined...starting with a warning.

    If the paramedic in question was snooping through private bunkroom areas, she should be disciplined...starting with a warning.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I know I promised to be quite, but it is true that porn sites pop up when you click on legitimate links but the I doubt the Lt. was surfing his "first site" at the station. I am not saying that as fact, just as an opinion. I think the circumstances of how he was "caught" is confusing the issue here. However, he is a company officer and apparently has been in trouble before, according to what I have read. He should be dismissed. He can then file an appeal, sue, or open a porn site. The bottom line is that "he" created the situation, no one else. The nosy medic would not have been able to report it if he was not looking at it. Apparently this is a public building and there is a policy, whether you agree with zero tolerance or not, he violated it. He did this to himself.

    It is a shame. Don't get me wrong. 20 years is a long time but if he has been there 20 years, then he should know better.
    Last edited by JayTL; 01-30-2002 at 08:25 PM.

  17. #42
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    Yeah, he looks like a real first class troublemaker.I wonder how much taxpayers time and money was spent on this investigation?It sounds like someone has an ax to grind. Box lets say someone got YOUR password and then cruised all the "GASP" porno sites? Not saying this is how it went down, but you never know. Would you like to say goodbye to your 20 year career? I think not.The punishment DOESENT fit the ALLEDGED crime.I believe there was a Supreme Court ruling some years ago concerning some L.A. firefighters and their right to keep "dirty" magazines in their possesion while at work. Correct me if I am wrong but I think they won. So having a girlie mag under your pillow just might be a constitutional right. It seems like this medic and her cohort went way out of there way to pimp the Lt. out. Must be nice to work at a firehouse where thats apparently their biggest problem. Me thinks there is more to this story then we are seeing in the posted article. Give him a day off or two..STOP THIS INSANITY

  18. #43
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    Default The bottom line

    The bottom line is this....if the governmental agency that this dept falls under has a zero-tolerence policy, and the LT violated the policy..he has no defense. Being a company officer only makes it that much worse....he is a supervisor of other departmental personnel who has to ensure that the people under him are following rules and regulations, therefore he has a duty to be familiar with these rules and regulations. You can say " He has a 20 year career on the line....etc" all you want....the bottom line is he as an officer is held at a higher standard, and he didn't live up to his obligations.

    As for the medic...her career at this, or probably any nearby department isn't looking so hot either. As we all know, and especially since 9/11...we are the klannish sort....we stick together. This medic faces an extremely uphill struggle pushing a huge boulder while the rest of her co-workers grease the hill she is climbing. She won the battle....but lost the war. Forever more she will be known as a "Snitch", "Rat", "Mutt" and a hundred other more derogatory descriptions that will follow her long after everyone else involved has come and gone. We have long memories and short tolerences. She will soon find out.

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    MIKEYLIKESIT Yeah, he looks like a real first class troublemaker.I wonder how much taxpayers time and money was spent on this investigation?
    If a dollar was spent it is his fault. Of course, he and this medic could have a thing going and this is all a game. As for constitutional law, he may have a case - if he were in California. However I think that his bad judgemnt is better off the job, than on the job. I have been at numerous stations where porn lay around--but that was then and this is now. It does not matter what used to be. He screwed up and he pays the piper. But I have beat this horse to death. Time will tell the tale. I wish Porno and Nosy the best!

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    Angry Poor Guy??? What's the truth???

    Brothers and Sisters:

    Down here in Pinellas County, all the Local news stations NBC, CBS, FOX, etc... all told a story of CHILD pornography. This makes it a whole new story, doesn't it??? Lori Kordecki was upset because of images of children...naked Children. Before you start to point the fingers and blame "a woman" please use your search engines and look into it a bit closer. I have been in the Fire Service for 20 years, and if I would have found those images...I would have taken care of it the appropriate way. Haligans aren't just for opening doors!!!
    If this guy is guilty of using Fire Departments computers for looking at porn, well he broke the rules and he should be punished. BUT, if he used the Fire Departments computers to look at Child Pornography then he a disgrace to the whole Fire Service and he has dis-repected the uniform and should go to a Federal Prison and change his name to Suzie... one man's opinion.

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    OK, I am playing devils advocate here. I ask you all, how many times have we all typed an address in the browser incorrectly and been directed to a porn site? I for one, have had this happen to me. This fire fighter does NOT deserve to be fired. I would, however, investigate the accuser. Why was she snooping around in the history files? Sounds to me like she had a grudge against him. I submit to you all, delete your history files. But remember, if you are on a server, the server retains where you've been, and who you have emailed, or what emails you've received. The servers save it all for future reference.

  22. #47
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    Thumbs down

    I've read all the posts here, and agree with most that firing is pretty harsh for this, unless it's been an ongoing problem with this guy (if it was in fact kids, and he did it, then hang him). I keep coming back to one glaring issue though; anyone in the year 2002 who thinks they can surf porn sites on city or county (or ANY government) computers without eventual fallout needs to wake up. If he hadn't gone to the sites in question this thread wouldn't exist. Poor judgment to say the least.

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    Angry

    I mentioned the child porno earlier in a post. Now people will say "Oh, this is different" and so on. The fact is that this guy not only broke a policy for which he should be terminated but did so in a terrible manner. Its a shame.
    Last edited by JayTL; 02-01-2002 at 10:08 AM.

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    I can understand the no porn on the city owned computer, but magazines, come on. What happened to our right of free speech and expression? I canít believe someone would bitch about another person with a Playboy or Penthouse magazine. Christ, magazines at the store check out counter probably have worse pictures in them.
    Get real, if I want to look at a nude magazine, thatís my choice and right. If you donít want to look at it, leave it alone, simple. Iíve about had it with all these people that bitch about something that they donít like and then other people lose there rights because of it.
    To the Lewy that got caught on the computer, discipline is in order but let the punishment fit the crime, and I donít think firing a 20 veteran is an appropriate punishment. If it were just a magazine I would say fight it to the death, but it was a city owned computer.
    And to the sorry B#$% who thinks its her duty to spy and rat out her fellow brothers and sisters, (hopfully she doesnít discriminate between the sexes) I hope she gets what she deserves! Whoever works with her, WATCH YOU BACK!!!

  25. #50
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    In any profession outside of firefighting, if you were viewing pornography at work, during business hours, on the employer's computer, you would be fired on the spot. If you had a pornographic magazine at work, even if it's stuffed in your personal desk, same deal. It's the employer's property, it's the employer's desk. It's the employer's rules.

    Obviously, the firefighting profession is somewhat different. In most other jobs you don't sleep, shower, etc. at your place of employment. However, the premise is still the same.

    On top of that, they had a zero tolerance policy. He knew it, he broke it.

    Stay Safe

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