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  1. #61
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    We really do not have enough information to pass judgement on the Lt. I think Box is a little off base when he wants my employer to regulate what I can read while on my free time at work. I sure as hell wouldnt want to work with someone who likes kiddie porn or even "child erotica"..whatever the hell that is. Things have changed alot in my firehouse. We used to have a locker labeled "the library". I myself do not read girlie mags at work ..Whats the point? As I stated in a previous post, L.A. firefighters won a Supreme Court ruling that stated as long as no one else had to see it, They could read Plyboy etc. while on duty..Any Los Angeles brothers out there? Please correct me if I am wrong..Box, you may not like what I read at work but as long as I dont leave it laying around or keep it in your view, you shouldnt worry about it. Next it will be no rated R movies and so on so on...


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    Senior Member firecat1524's Avatar
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    Once again I will say that as an officer, someone who is supposed to make sure that the people working underneath him follow rules and regulations, Lt Fellman is held at a higher standard than the ordinary tailboard firefighter. He knew of the Zero Tolerance policy, therefore he has no leg to stand on. Regardless of the dubious way the information was found, he broke one of the rules he as a supervisor is supposed to enforce.

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    Granted the guy was wrong, but to terminate a 20 year vet. Couln't this have been done behind closed doors? WE all know FF are high strung, that's what makes them FF. Someone said there are more questions than answers. I agree. I think that there may be alot more people involved here than they are saying, expecially when she went looking for something and found it. And if I found that someone was in my personal belonings while I was on a call, look the H*** out. And if some females get offended, you are going to have a long road to travel. I have been around the fire service all my life. Boys will be boys, they all have the harmone thing going on. Whether you see or hear it, or not. If it had been me, I would have hit delete, before someone saw it that didn't need to see it. And you couldn't pay me enough to work with her. rm41
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    Senior Member firecat1524's Avatar
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    Originally posted by redmedusa41
    Granted the guy was wrong, but to terminate a 20 year vet. Couln't this have been done behind closed doors? WE all know FF are high strung, that's what makes them FF. Someone said there are more questions than answers. I agree. I think that there may be alot more people involved here than they are saying, expecially when she went looking for something and found it. And if I found that someone was in my personal belonings while I was on a call, look the H*** out. And if some females get offended, you are going to have a long road to travel. I have been around the fire service all my life. Boys will be boys, they all have the harmone thing going on. Whether you see or hear it, or not. If it had been me, I would have hit delete, before someone saw it that didn't need to see it. And you couldn't pay me enough to work with her. rm41

    I couldn't disagree with you more. To have handled this behind closed doors quite possibly could have backfired on the department once the word got out. Obviously the word got out since it was in newspapers, etc....can you imagine the black eye the department would have gotten if they had to say in the media " We handled this matter behind closed doors and Lt Fellman was disciplined"? It is a Zero Tolerance policy. That means you read Playboy, you go to www.bigtatas.com, you watch "Night Nurses in Heat" you are gone. Period. The department didn't willfully throw away a 20 year career, Lt Fellman did.

    The excuse "boys will be boys" is out and out utter crap. Since boys will be boys I guess it's also ok for two f/f's to settle disputes with their fists....afterall, boys will be boys. Hormones are a BS excuse too. Do you hoot and holler at every good looking female you pass while going down the street in your firetruck? I have been in the fire service for 12 1/2 years now, the last 9 of it in a career role and I can count on one hand the number of times there has been pornography in a firehouse I worked out of. Wanna know why? A Zero Tolerance policy.

    The female in question didn't go through his personal belongings...she found the information on a department computer. Yes, she possibly went snooping, then again she could have been looking for a web addy she used previously the article doesn't say...and she'll pay the price for that the rest of her career...but that doesn't diminish the fact that Lt Fellman, an officer, violated one of the regulations he as a supervisor is supposed to uphold.

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    I think Box is a little off base when he wants my employer to regulate what I can read while on my free time at work.
    Mikey,

    When you are on your "free time" at work are you still on duty?

    Are you in a public building?

    Can a guy on your shift read "Kiddie Porn" or "Macho Gay Guys" while you browse through "Playboy"?

    Because under Ponography it all falls in line brother.

    I am not for censorship but do you have free time off the job or is it that some people just can't contain themselves for a shift. This is why the fire service is still looked at askew by many. Oh, we have this free time, so I am going to look at my "Horny Goat Weed" magazine. That way, if I get a call, or a citizen enters the building, or if someone finds it objectionable, then I have put myself, my family, and my reputation at risk. Really good idea.

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    If you read my post BOX, I stated I don't read "questionable" materials at work.That said, yes we do have free time while working, after 1600. You can watch t.v., wash your car or hang out. The firehouse IS a public building. The dorm is NOT a public area. You keep going back to this "gay porn" analogy. If I cant see it, or you cant see it, then it should not concern either one of us..Although I WOULD sleep with one eye open if I saw one of my co-workers reading that particular material. Where does it stop? You say you are against censorship. What is porn? Are you qualified to make that assumption? I think you have alot of valid points and I enjoy your web site. I just think you are off the mark a little on this one. Kiddie porn IS illegal and if someone is stupid enough to have it at home or work deserves everything they get.

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    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    yes we do have free time while working, after 1600. You can watch t.v., wash your car or hang out
    I'm sure the taxpayers love knowing that they are paying for guys to watch TV, wash their personal car, hang out, or look at porn (even if you yourself don't).

    theboxalarm said it ... this is why the fire service is still looked at askew by many.

    Until the employees in the fire service are held to the same standards as employees in the private sector, it won't change.

    Stay Safe

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    Default Free Time

    Free time at work....I never knew such a thing existed. I'll spring that on the DC the next time he stops by. NOT!

  9. #69
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Whats your point? PA. Would you like it better if we remopped the floors? We do our training, housework, fire prevention and other assorted duties during the day. After 1600 we can do exactly what I said we do and of course we answer fire and EMS calls around the clock. As far as I can tell, its pretty standard procedure to watch t.v at the firehouse and GASP wash your car, read a book, cook, eat and all the other things that firefighters do when they are on duty for 24 hours. DO NOT turn this thread into another "hey look at the lazy fulltime firefighters" b.s. that seems to creep its way into every single one. We dont have "dirty" magazines at the firehouse, but the United States Supreme Court says we can as long as no one else sees it.The fire service is not like working at WAL MART or at the insurance office. It is where we spend 1/3 of our lives. I have yet to have a citizen bitch to me that they are not getting their moneys worth.

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    Originally posted by theboxalarm


    Mikey,

    When you are on your "free time" at work are you still on duty?



    Can a guy on your shift read "Kiddie Porn" or "Macho Gay Guys" while you browse through "Playboy"?



    Oh, we have this free time, so I am going to look at my "Horny Goat Weed" magazine. That way, if I get a call, or a citizen enters the building, or if someone finds it objectionable, then I have put myself, my family, and my reputation at risk. Really good idea.

    WOW horny goat weed magazine?
    can you tell us a little more about that one, I have heard of playboy, penhouse, swank, but horny goat weed magazine hmm..so are you saying you look at animal porn?
    lol..that is just wrong..box just busting your chops..

  11. #71
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    Mikey, since you asked ... is every single commercial/multi-residential building in your first due area pre-planned? Has every student in your first due area gone through fire prevention? Is every child car seat in your first due area installed properly? Has every commercial/mult-residential building been inspected for fire safety? If the answers to those questions (and the multitude of others that could be asked) are yes. Great. You should be proud.

    I know that paid firemen work hard. You don't need to tell me that.

    Do I want you to remop all the floors? No. I could care less. Do I want you to do something to help change the image of the fire service? Yes. Do I want you to NOT post on a public forum that you wash your car at work? Yes. Do I want you to NOT post on a public forum that you think that firemen should be able to get paid to look at porn while at work? Yes. It's that simple. Pitch in with the rest of us. The image has definitely been improved in the past few years. However, there is still a ways to go.

    Stay Safe

  12. #72
    MembersZone Subscriber TailboardJockey's Avatar
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    Default Stop your trolling!

    Originally posted by PA Volunteer
    I'm sure the taxpayers love knowing that they are paying for guys to watch TV, wash their personal car, hang out, or look at porn (even if you yourself don't).

    So tell me, what should us full-timers be doing at work on a 24-hour shift? What would you do? I'd love to hear it!

    theboxalarm said it ... this is why the fire service is still looked at askew by many.

    By who? Name your sources. Where and who are the many?

    Until the employees in the fire service are held to the same standards as employees in the private sector, it won't change.

    What standards would those be? We're held to a higher standard! If a firefighter, career or volunteer, is accused of a crime, the headline screams FIREFIGHTER! We wouldn't even know about this case if he wasn't a firefighter.

    This shouldn't have anything to do with him being a career firefighter. It's a guy accused of looking at porn at work. I would bet that most cities and corporations have policies that forbid using city or company computers to look at porn.

    You're trying to hijack this thread to meet your own personal anti-career firefighter agenda. Stop trolling!
    Living the dream...

  13. #73
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Gee, last time I checked. I was in the FIREFIGHTERS forum. We havent graduated to car seats. Our police handle that. All the other questions you asked could be answered with a YES. That is what we do during business hours. John Q. Public still thinks we drink beer and play checkers. So if there are any members of the general public (doubtful) that happen to be surfing this site and are REALLY concerned with what goes on at night at the firehouse, let me assure you. We are ever ready, willing and able to respond to your emergency in a calm and professional manner. Usually in under a minute.

  14. #74
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    Tailboard Jockey, get a little security in yourself, please. No one is attacking paid firemen. If you look above, I believe that I said that paid firemen work hard, and you don't need to tell me that. What do I expect you to do on a 24 hour shift? I expect you to sleep, and do other things that would prepare you to do your job better. If you can prove that looking at porn, on the taxpayers dollar, helps you do your job better, then by all means, look at porn at work.

    You're absolutely right, this should have nothing to do with the fact that he is a paid fireman. My statements have to do with Mikey trying to justify being able to look at porn while you are at work. Many people look at the fire service as a very valuable organization which happens to be full of hicks, perverts, drunks, ignorant meatheads, fill-in-the-blank. If you need sources, quotes, and numbers to realize that, you need a reality check.

    I am not anti-paid fireman. I am anti-anyone who tries to use the constitution to defend looking at porn while at work.

    The fact that anyone could even suggest that it is okay to look at porn while at work shows that there is something wrong with wherever they work.

    Mikey, sounds like you guys are in great shape. It sounds like you are proud, as you should be. I don't doubt that you are ready to answer a call at anytime in under a minute. That has nothing to do with this. Every single fireman, paid or volunteer, every single day, should be doing whatever they can to be a better fireman. As I stated above, if that means sleep, then sleep. I'm guessing looking at porn can't be fit into that category.

    Child seats ... do you respond to accidents with injuries? Could ensuring that child seats are installed properly prevent injuries? Then why not do it? If the cops have that 100% covered, great. That's one less thing that you guys have to do.

    Stay Safe

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    Default Child Seats and firefighters

    Yes Mikey, you are posting on a Firefighters forum, and you know what? Our Fire Station hosts a car seat clinic every single month. Parents make an appointment to come down to the station where fully trained infant/child restraint technichians (many firefighters included) will examine their car seats, ensure they are correctly installed, ensure the strapping system is in the correct position and that the seat is being used is the correct size and type and position for the individual child. We check recall lists for recalls on any seats and advise parents how to contact the company for corrections if recalls are found. We answer just about any question a parent may have and if we find that a car seat is inadequate, outgrown or should be condemned, we will replace it with a new one if the family can't afford it. This program is run jointly with Fire/EMS/Police and our local Community Crisis Centre.
    Does this activity fall under the "typical firefighters job"? Probably not, but our firefighters certainly enjoy the peace of mind as each car drives away knowing that is one less chance of having to search through the fields and ditches looking for an ejected child, or consolling each other afterwards when dealing with an infant death after an MVA. Could be activities like this are why our community doesn't think all we do is sit around and drink beer? They know exactly what we do because we are consistantly out in the community showing them.

    I'll get off my soapbox now and on with the original topic of the thread!! Have a great day!
    Last edited by LadyCapn; 02-05-2002 at 04:21 PM.

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    Tailboard Jockey :
    By who? Name your sources. Where and who are the many?
    If you believe that the public has a great view of the fire service then you obviously don't follow the budgetary process in major urban cities or the "No" votes in other area's when firefighters ask for needed equipment.

    I wasa volunteer for eight months and a career guy since 1984. I don't think anyone is trolling. Are you expected to perform at work? Yes. Is it damaging when people hear that firefighters are reading porn at the station, or washing a car (Which I am guilty of) or having free time? We know what we do during a long shift but do we have to advertise it in public.

    I know cops who sit around their favorite watering hole in Brooklyn, but they don't shout it to the heavens! What I am talking about is common sense. Okay, your there and you need free time. I AGREE with that as someone who has worked countless 24's. However, on a forum that many non-firefighters are visiting it would be better if we kept our secrets to ourselves. Or maybe not. Just let it all hang out!
    Last edited by JayTL; 02-05-2002 at 04:43 PM.

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    MikeyLikesit

    I appreciate the comments about our site.

    Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I use the "Gay Porn" simply because it is a check of a persons stance on an issue. I will refrain from that in the future!!!


    What is porn? Are you qualified to make that assumption?
    I believe that anyone with a brain stem can judge porn for themselves. Here you make a good point Mikey. What is porn? I will leave that to legal scholars and the "Perverts of America - Miami Chapter". Just joking.

    I guess it all boils down to perspective and this discussion is why this country is great. We all look at it from a different perspective. I will cite mine and then I am going to close out my participation on this thread.

    First off, I could be wrong. It would surely not be the first time. Having said that I am looking at it from the point of view of someone who believes that firefighters in every community are honorable people. Sure there is the arsonist, murderer, rapist, and politician among us, but all in all, firefighters are good people. As someone who believes that every firefighter, paid and volunteer, should receive as much as possible for placing their life on the line, I like to think that we SHOULD be held to high standards. When this apparently nitwitted Lt. was caught looking at porn, if that turns out to be the truth, when a departmental policy was in place, like it or not, he violated the trust placed in him by his community. Now people will ride by a fire station and say "Wonder if they got "Big Momma" or "Big Poppa"(Poor choices) pulled up on those computers that we, as taxpayers, bought. People remember that when budgets roll around and items are on ballots.

    The fact that the fire service suffers from open wounds is not just the bureaucrats. We are our own worst enemy. We get a foot in the door of public opinion and then kick ourselves in arse with the other foot. Not always, but once is enough in someones mind. Fini!



    Oh,
    smketer I couldn't think of anything better

  18. #78
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    PA, at no time did I condone any kind of pornography in the fire station. If you want to look at that at home on your own time, knock yourself out.

    By the way, are you at work when you log on to Firehouse? What would your boss think about that?

    PA: "Many people look at the fire service as a very valuable organization which happens to be full of hicks, perverts, drunks, ignorant meatheads, fill-in-the-blank."

    Wow! I feel sorry for your community. It's not like that everywhere.
    Living the dream...

  19. #79
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    Lady Capn, I think its great your department does child safety seat checks. Our Police Department is trained in it. I understand the need and the benefits of it. We have an agressive public education program with proven real-life success stories. We can only wear so many hats. We do way more then we used to. With the public and in the shear number of fire and EMS runs we respond to. The fire service has changed and mostly for the better. Box, I dont want to sound like an apologist for the LT. or the porn world, but I just thought the punishment was very harsh. But then again we did not get all the information from the posted newspaper article.Maybe I am wrong, but I dont like rats.Which the paramedic and her cohort remind me of.

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    I agree, Mikey. We should probably wait for the facts on this case before we convict the guy.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Living the dream...

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