Thread: This poor guy

  1. #76
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    Tailboard Jockey :
    By who? Name your sources. Where and who are the many?
    If you believe that the public has a great view of the fire service then you obviously don't follow the budgetary process in major urban cities or the "No" votes in other area's when firefighters ask for needed equipment.

    I wasa volunteer for eight months and a career guy since 1984. I don't think anyone is trolling. Are you expected to perform at work? Yes. Is it damaging when people hear that firefighters are reading porn at the station, or washing a car (Which I am guilty of) or having free time? We know what we do during a long shift but do we have to advertise it in public.

    I know cops who sit around their favorite watering hole in Brooklyn, but they don't shout it to the heavens! What I am talking about is common sense. Okay, your there and you need free time. I AGREE with that as someone who has worked countless 24's. However, on a forum that many non-firefighters are visiting it would be better if we kept our secrets to ourselves. Or maybe not. Just let it all hang out!
    Last edited by JayTL; 02-05-2002 at 05:43 PM.

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    MikeyLikesit

    I appreciate the comments about our site.

    Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I use the "Gay Porn" simply because it is a check of a persons stance on an issue. I will refrain from that in the future!!!


    What is porn? Are you qualified to make that assumption?
    I believe that anyone with a brain stem can judge porn for themselves. Here you make a good point Mikey. What is porn? I will leave that to legal scholars and the "Perverts of America - Miami Chapter". Just joking.

    I guess it all boils down to perspective and this discussion is why this country is great. We all look at it from a different perspective. I will cite mine and then I am going to close out my participation on this thread.

    First off, I could be wrong. It would surely not be the first time. Having said that I am looking at it from the point of view of someone who believes that firefighters in every community are honorable people. Sure there is the arsonist, murderer, rapist, and politician among us, but all in all, firefighters are good people. As someone who believes that every firefighter, paid and volunteer, should receive as much as possible for placing their life on the line, I like to think that we SHOULD be held to high standards. When this apparently nitwitted Lt. was caught looking at porn, if that turns out to be the truth, when a departmental policy was in place, like it or not, he violated the trust placed in him by his community. Now people will ride by a fire station and say "Wonder if they got "Big Momma" or "Big Poppa"(Poor choices) pulled up on those computers that we, as taxpayers, bought. People remember that when budgets roll around and items are on ballots.

    The fact that the fire service suffers from open wounds is not just the bureaucrats. We are our own worst enemy. We get a foot in the door of public opinion and then kick ourselves in arse with the other foot. Not always, but once is enough in someones mind. Fini!



    Oh,
    smketer I couldn't think of anything better

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    PA, at no time did I condone any kind of pornography in the fire station. If you want to look at that at home on your own time, knock yourself out.

    By the way, are you at work when you log on to Firehouse? What would your boss think about that?

    PA: "Many people look at the fire service as a very valuable organization which happens to be full of hicks, perverts, drunks, ignorant meatheads, fill-in-the-blank."

    Wow! I feel sorry for your community. It's not like that everywhere.
    Living the dream...

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    Lady Capn, I think its great your department does child safety seat checks. Our Police Department is trained in it. I understand the need and the benefits of it. We have an agressive public education program with proven real-life success stories. We can only wear so many hats. We do way more then we used to. With the public and in the shear number of fire and EMS runs we respond to. The fire service has changed and mostly for the better. Box, I dont want to sound like an apologist for the LT. or the porn world, but I just thought the punishment was very harsh. But then again we did not get all the information from the posted newspaper article.Maybe I am wrong, but I dont like rats.Which the paramedic and her cohort remind me of.

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    I agree, Mikey. We should probably wait for the facts on this case before we convict the guy.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Living the dream...

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    Tailboard:

    Am I at work when I log on to Firehouse? What would my boss think about that?

    Well, he probably wouldn't like it. You know why? Because he is in charge of paying me to do my job, which doesn't include logging on to Firehouse.com.

    Which is exactly the reason why we should be concerned about what the public thinks of us. They are responsible for our funding, and they are in charge of paying paid firemen to do their jobs, which doesn't include looking at porn. I'm a volunteer. Does it affect me if the public sees that a fireman is saying that paid firemen should be able to look at porn while at work? Absolutely. Why? The general public lumps the fire service into one category. They generally don't distinguish between paid and volunteer. At the same time, I do not condone volunteer firemen sitting around the firehouse drinking beer or looking at porn. The public did not provide the funding so that volunteers would have a common place to drink beer or look at porn.

    While my hicks, perverts, drunks, etc. example may be extreme, it serves its purpose. There are plenty of people everywhere, even in the San Francisco Bay Area, who, while glad that someone will be there to save their house from burning down, think that firemen are 2nd class citizens who are not as intelligent, or civilized as they are. They won't say it to your face, and they are glad as can be when you're coming to their house. But, believe it or not, it's still true.

    I did not mean to imply that you condone looking at porn at work. That was reserved for Mikey (who stated that he condones looking at porn at work). Looking back, I can see that you could have taken that from my posts. You have my apologies. I have no reason to believe that you condone viewing pornography at work.

    Stay Safe

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    Hey PA ...Where did I say I "CONDONED" looking at porn in the firehouse? You have a pretty big set of rocks to come off thinking you know what I believe or what I think is right or wrong. There is a big difference in what I BELIEVE and what peoples rights are. Having said that, you seem like as much fun around the firehouse as my grandma would be.

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    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    the United States Supreme Court says we can as long as no one else sees it.The fire service is not like working at WAL MART or at the insurance office. It is where we spend 1/3 of our lives. I have yet to have a citizen bitch to me that they are not getting their moneys worth.
    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    I think Box is a little off base when he wants my employer to regulate what I can read while on my free time at work ...

    Box, you may not like what I read at work but as long as I dont leave it laying around or keep it in your view, you shouldnt worry about it. Next it will be no rated R movies and so on so on...
    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    So having a girlie mag under your pillow just might be a constitutional right.
    Mikey, all the above statements, at the very least, infer that you condone looking at porn while at work. If that's not the case, then clear it up and say so. That's all.

    I'm sorry that you think that trying to better the image of firemen is not fun.

    Stay Safe

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    Oh so now I "inferred" to condone porn. Not that I actually came out and said.." I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK AT PORN AT THE FIREHOUSE" Guess what? I dont need you to tell me about "bettering" the image of firemen. We enjoy a large amount of public support without the divine intervention of SAINT PA VOLUNTEER.

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    Mikey, relax. Why don't you clear it up and just say that you don't condone looking at porn at work?


    Stay Safe

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    Default This poor guy

    I am shocked and appalled at the general opinion that Lori Kordecki did something wrong when she turned this guy in. She did nothing wrong and it is my opinion that firefighters should all aspire to her higher standards.Porn has no place in any public environment. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves and cut her some slack.

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    Default This poor guy

    I am shocked and appalled at the general opinion that Lori Kordecki did something wrong when she turned this guy in. She did nothing wrong and it is my opinion that firefighters should all aspire to her higher standards.Porn has no place in any public environment. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves and cut her some slack.

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    Default WHAT?

    Dana Bickfrod says:
    I am shocked and appalled at the general opinion that Lori Kordecki did something wrong when she turned this guy in.
    I know that I said I was through but I have to address this. Do you know for a fact that Ms. Kordecki found the apparent pornography pulled up on the computer or did she go "looking" where he had been? If she did, is she designated by the department to perform such checks in compliance with departmental rules and regulations?

    She did nothing wrong and it is my opinion that firefighters should all aspire to her higher standards.
    Could you explain her higher standards? If you would, define what you mean by higher standards. What are baseline standards as you understand them?

    Porn has no place in any public environment.
    That is for the Supreme court to decide and for individual departments to implement policies for. I have stated in my comments that I thought that the Lt. is wrong and deserves termination if the facts bear out. I am against pornography in the stations but perhaps you could provide all of us a definition of pornography?
    Should bibles be banned because many find it objectionable. How about CD's that contain violent content? Not badgering, just asking.




    You guys should be ashamed of yourselves and cut her some slack.
    Why be ashamed of engaging in conversation? Though many of us disagree we are brothers and sisters and therefore we choose to comment on this forum. Certainly there are always, and will always, be questions about the circumstances around anyone reporting on another. It is human nature to reach conclusions based on shreds of evidence. In the fire service, like it or not, people are looked at for the reasons that they report, both male and female. Same way in the PD. You might not like it but hey, I detest Micheal Bolton and people still listen to him.

    As for cutting her some slack, I have been heaping my coals on the Lt.

    Thanks for commenting!

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    I log on from work, but I'm a dispatcher, so I'm either up to my eyeballs in it(work that is, not porn), or I'm so bored I would rather watch paint dry...

    I've expressed my opinion earlier on how I feel about the particulars of this topic. However, the references to how the public views the fire service prompted me to post again.

    Our funding (career/volunteer, tax supported/donation based) can be traced back to the general public. The public has a long memory for these type of things. If they totally clear the Lt. who was accused of looking at porn at the station, the public will only remember the first part of the story. Therefore, I think it is very important for us to go out of our way to promote a positive public image. I personnally don't like to see someone wearing an FD t-shirt downing pitchers of beer at the fair, but that's me.

    Respect from the public is hard to earn and easy to lose.
    Last edited by SilverCity4; 02-06-2002 at 02:37 PM.
    Bryan Beall
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    I read all of these posts, and overall, it saddens me.

    I am just a firefighter.

    I have realized that I can never be as qualified as any other firefighter (Particularily on these forums), nor as politically correct as the world needs me to be, nor can I read minds, or fly around with a red cape and repair all the wrongs in the world.

    However.... I always give my best and try to make a difference through my actions.

    The reality of the firehall and brotherhood is teamwork. It shames me to see much of the Fire Service motivated by liability rather than common sense, to meet the needs of the Community. I have yet to see theory or polictical correctness, extinguish a fire.

    I respect our traditions, and strive for progress.

    And if this doesn't put things in perspective.... at least I didn't do a commercial for Subway Sandwiches!

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    Default Re: This poor guy

    Originally posted by Dana Bickford
    I am shocked and appalled at the general opinion that Lori Kordecki did something wrong when she turned this guy in. She did nothing wrong and it is my opinion that firefighters should all aspire to her higher standards.Porn has no place in any public environment. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves and cut her some slack.
    Dana Where do you work?
    SO all of us can know if we are ever in your neck of the woods to make sure we dont even break wind near you?
    And samething goes for you as well, if you are a fire fighter or in the industry when ever you go to a station first thing you can do is let every guy there know how you are. And please dont let the first thing you do is go to the computer and look in the history file or go flip a bed to look.

    Well firefighters do aspire to higher standards, how does that quote go:
    Not all humans are equal, some are FF's?
    oh well its not the point.

    Some guys also kill time in diffrent ways and destress.

    Maybe he was working a good medical and the guy died so he turned to his good friends playboy and penhouse to give him comfort?

    Wait dana I want to check with you first we are going to play cards after dinner to see to who has KP, is that wrong or is that not part of your STANDARD?

    Oh and for porn in the work place, well let me just turn on the tv and watch it after 10pm, WOW soft cable TV PORN!
    You know its just pictures its all it is.

    Dana, what is your standard?
    that when you call 911 you have a team of guys there willing to do anything for you and for your family?
    And you dont want some guy when he is putting out your oven fire because you burnt dinner (again) to get all ****ed off and start breaking crap and going nuts with the saw to give you a extra sky light in your kitchen, well then my vote is to let people do what ever they want as long as it does not hurt others, and it does not cause any damage.

  17. #92
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    Several years ago USA Today ran a poll which asked which government entity the general public had the most confidence in. The FIRE DEPARTMENT and FIREFIGHTERS scored a 73% approval rating, which was by and far the highest out of any public service group. There are some bad apples in the fire service, just like there are some bad politicians, lawyers, cops, clergy or any other occupation. The bad ones usually end up out of the fire service. Dana Bickford, I doubt you are a firefighter.Neither you nor I can make a judgement on the Lt. or the "courageous" actions of the paramedic with the information at hand. Do I personally care if someone reads a "dirty" magazine during down time at work? NO. My concern is if that firefighter is going to be there for me and my fellow crew members when things get ugly. Anyone that has been in the Fire Service for any length of time can tell you how much things have changed. Dana Bickford, I for one am not ashamed of myself for doubting a paramedic who went way out of her way to look for trouble.I am also not ashamed to discuss this with fellow firefighters. That is the purpose of these forum.

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    Let's just clarify a few issues here...It concerns me that many of you are quick to judge and haven't even checked the facts. The fact is this guy was looking at child porn!!How many of you would condon someone possibly looking at naked pictures of your child? I hope that you would protect your children at any cost!! Lori was protecting someone's else's child and I commend that. The children were the victims here! The Lt. placed himself up for public scrutiny when he took his job. He should have helped set the standards for his department. It is very interesting, that because Lori is a women, she takes the blame here.Good old boys stick together, Right?

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    Perhap Dana it's you who should get your "facts" straight it was in fact not child pornography as you will see in this quote from the St. Petes times "Allegations against Fellman initially included charges that he also accessed child pornography on Fire Department computers. But St. Pete Beach police Capt. Todd Kirchgraber, who did the investigation, said that charge was unfounded." The article goes on to say that there were other images 308 in all most which could not be attributed to Fellman.

    Let's not make judgement until the results of the appeal are over and as has been said before if the snoop could access the history then she could also have planted it and it becomes his word against hers.

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    I tried to stay out of this but I cant so here goes. I do not now are at anytime agree with pornography. My religious views prohibit the stuff. But I am aware that there are others who do not agree with me. The only thing is that it should not be at work. It is not professional and could make the department look bad. And in some places there are enough people with large mouths that do not need more ammunition. But I am TOTALLY against those who are deliberately looking for trouble by snooping. I also am suspicious that she found these items. If she is able to copy the history file, then she is able to make false entries into it. This is a case where both are wrong. If there are rules, then obey them. If you are on a team, be loyal to it. It is unfortinuate that the Lt. may lose his job but he knew the rules and broke them. But the paramedic deserves no trust or respect. If I cannot trust those on my team then of what use are they?

    -This just my opinion. I may be wrong. Feel free to let me know.
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    Sorry Dana, I think it is you that should get your facts straight. Earlier in this thread an article was posted stating that the child porn accusations were unfounded. I then went searching and found an article dated Oct.31 that states how Kordecki left the computer and gave it to Fellman. Later on she gets back on the computer and finds porno sites listed in the computer. My question is, why was she even in the history files? She should have no real reason to be looking there, unless of course she is looking for trouble, IMO. Then Kordecki and another member of the dept save the history files under the name "Stealth"(see excerpt below from 10/31/01 article). Um, hello!!!!If she didnt like what she saw, all she had to do was erase the addresses.Sure sounds like snooping to me. .Granted, I dont work there and we dont know all the facts but what from what I get after reading all the articles, it it looks like it, smells like it, then it probably is it...


    I really dont think her being a woman has anything to do with the bashing she may be getting from fellow firefighters. I cant think of anybody I work with, male or female, that would like to work in an enviroment where you have to walk on eggshells for fear of being "discovered". Thats why she's being bashed--for breaking a code of honor, allegedly snooping and going where she shouldnt be.


    This all said, it doesnt mean I agree or disagree with the punishment that was handed out. If the guys in my station are looking at their Pam Anderson pictorials I really dont give a damn, I'll just pull out my Jean Claude Van Damme Playgirl and we're all happy . Child porn, well thats a whole other subject and I wont EVEN go there tonight...And if you give me a choice between a ff looking at "dirty pics" or a ff smoking pot on the job, shoot, I'll take the guy with the magazine anyday.


    Lady.

    excerpt from St.Petersburg article. For entire article go to:
    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/...?ts=1013065509

    "That's because Fellman was working a shift with Paramedic Lori Kordecki and Firefighter Ron Nifong when Kordecki went online this summer to work on her St. Petersburg Junior College courses.

    Kordecki turned over the use of the computer to Fellman and later returned to the terminal to find pornography Web sites listed in the computer's history file.

    Kordecki had previous experiences with adult material at the firehouse. She had discovered pornographic Web sites in the history file before, and had also turned into the chief a pornographic magazine found under a mattress in the firefighter's bunks.

    "I was totally disgusted and offended," Kordecki told Kirchgraber in her interview. "I said, 'That's it. I've had it.' "

    Kordecki and Nifong saved items from the history file onto the computer's hard drive. That file, which the paramedics named "Stealth," linked Fellman to the adult material."
    "Let every nation know..that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"---JFK, Jan.1961

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    Default Dana

    Good old boys? What, do you hear the Dukes of hazard theme somewhere? Just because a majority might not agree with you, you cite "being a woman" as the issue. It is like playing the race card. If you cry foul over every situation, then people start becoming desensitized to it. That is a tragedy. Plain and simple.

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    Dana - get YOUR facts straight.

    As for Lori - it's not a male/female thing. I wouldn't want her around my firehouse either. People like her give women a bad name - they're not picking on her because she's female, but because she's a mutt - which makes real females look bad.

    No one argues the point that this guy did break the rules. The punishment was too severe in my personal opinion, but my biggest problem is with ANY fellow firefighter that would go LOOKING to get another firefighter in trouble.

    My full time job is in Information Technology. History files don't just pop up at you - you have to go looking for them. If she's doing this and scrounging under mattresses she's looking for trouble. She needs to find another line of work, or go find a station full of mutts she can fit in with.
    Susan Lounsbury
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    The man knew what he was doing was in direct violation of company policies and chose to do it any way. NO PITY for him. As for the woman I think she comes across as an "I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR" type that has an axe to grind. She should have spoken privatly to the man and let him know that in no uncertain terms if he were to repeat his actions she would inform the higher ups. If he had been surfing in her presence that would be different story and she shouldn't have been snooping. She had no right to. No more than if the man had been snooping as to what she had been doing. There are computer programs available that record keystrokes, images, websites visited that would have done the job if mgmt felt there was a problem to be investigated.

    It is irrelavent what policies were broken, porn surfing, smoking on dept property, using dept vehicles for personal use or what ever he did break a policy and that is his problem now.
    Some days yer the fire hydrant and some days yer the dog.

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    I was just wondering....If she looked up the web sites in the history files. Would it be enough in a court of law that just the names of web sites to be proof of pornography, or would she have to of gone to those sites to see, and if she did, is she not as guilty? I could very well create a web site of pictures of daffodils and call it ***.com (take whitehouse.com for instance) Damn, I'd fight it tooth and nail if were him. To the other firefighters in that dept....I'm sure if you try to not socialize with Lori, she'll have you and the dept up on charges for Lord knows what. Bad situation.

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