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    Post This poor guy

    I just got this email from a friend, now I think this guy should get his job back. I mean come on!

    Firefighter appeals firing over porn
    A lieutenant who ran afoul of St. Pete Beach's zero tolerance policy on pornography decides to fight to get his job back.

    ST. PETE BEACH -- The memo was posted in September 2000, instructing firefighters that sexually explicit material had no place in the firehouse.

    Not in magazines, not in videos, not in books. And not on the Internet.

    "As you have been advised in the past, the possession/use of inappropriate materials in the Fire Department SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED," Fire Chief Fred Golliner wrote, explaining his department would follow a zero tolerance policy on pornography in the workplace.

    One year later, the chief has recommended firing the first firefighter accused of violating the policy. Lt. Crist Fellman, a 20-year veteran of the department, will appeal the decision through a grievance procedure.

    The investigative report details how an internal affairs investigation, with the help of Florida Department of Law Enforcement computer analysts, linked Fellman to the pornography found on department computers.

    The report also showed that, possibly because of the atypical nature of a firehouse workplace, sexually explicit materials were more common around the St. Pete Beach Fire Department than in other workplace environments.

    "Unlike other public officials, it is entirely appropriate for firemen on 24-hour shifts, upon the completion of their duties, to watch cable television and/or to use the Internet," Fellman's former lawyer, Morris Weinberg, wrote in a letter to the city requesting Fellman be reinstated.

    Fellman's appeal of the city's decision might rely on evidence produced in the city's internal investigation of him. The report, produced by police Capt. Todd Kirchgraber, describes in interviews with employees that two other firefighters might have accessed pornography on the Internet after Golliner's zero tolerance memo was posted a year ago.

    "I certainly didn't see any focus being placed on them," said Fellman's lawyer, Robert McKee.

    The investigation also discusses how, historically, pornography was accessible in the all-male, 24-hour-a-day environment of the Fire Department, though Golliner is quick to say that it can't be found anymore and hasn't been as prevalent for years.

    "I think we're as clean of a department as you can find now," Golliner said.

    Still, the past could play a role in Fellman's appeal. "There's a history in the department in terms of a tolerance for adult-related material," McKee said.

    Kirchgraber says the investigation stopped with Fellman because he is the only firefighter who can specifically be placed at a Fire Department computer at a time when adult material was accessed.

    "This was the first piece of real concrete evidence that came into our hands," Kirchgraber said.

    Added Golliner: "We can't get any more thorough with the computer systems. There's no way of placing anyone behind the computer."

    That's because Fellman was working a shift with Paramedic Lori Kordecki and Firefighter Ron Nifong when Kordecki went online this summer to work on her St. Petersburg Junior College courses.

    Kordecki turned over the use of the computer to Fellman and later returned to the terminal to find pornography Web sites listed in the computer's history file.

    Kordecki had previous experiences with adult material at the firehouse. She had discovered pornographic Web sites in the history file before, and had also turned into the chief a pornographic magazine found under a mattress in the firefighter's bunks.

    "I was totally disgusted and offended," Kordecki told Kirchgraber in her interview. "I said, 'That's it. I've had it.' "

    Kordecki and Nifong saved items from the history file onto the computer's hard drive. That file, which the paramedics named "Stealth," linked Fellman to the adult material.

    And while other sexually explicit images were found on firehouse computers -- 308 in all -- none of the others could be directly tied to any individual employee, Kirchgraber said.

    The report discusses past experiences with adult material at the firehouse: how firefighters sometimes exchanged adult videos at work and kept pornographic magazines at the department. On at least one occasion mentioned in the report, firefighters viewed an adult movie at work.

    Most of these incidents happened before the September 2000 memo. In interviews with Kirchgraber, one firefighter said he recalled a discussion with Fellman shortly after the memo was posted.

    "Well, they got most of the books out of here, but I still got mine," Firefighter Greg Fletcher recalled Fellman saying as he lifted up the mattress of the lieutenants' bunk to reveal porn magazines hidden there.

    "Times have changed," Kirchgraber said. "Nothing condoned, but understand that what might have been happening, as times changed, as people's standards changed, so does that behavior, and clearly the fire chief was trying to set a standard where those types of things weren't accepted."

    Fellman earned more than $49,200 a year from the city. He was promoted to lieutenant in 1995, and his personnel file includes letters from residents complimenting his service.

    The file also includes past disciplinary actions.

    In 1996, after he transferred some emergency medical technician supplies from the main firehouse in north St. Pete Beach to Station No. 22 in the Pass-a-Grille neighborhood, his supervisor reversed his decision and returned some of the supplies to the north station.

    Fellman responded in a terse memo and was reprimanded for writing it. The subject Fellman wrote on his memo was "I should have known!!!!"

    "Just once, I would like to see some support around here," he wrote.

    He also received "letters of instruction and caution," a low-level form of discipline, for hitting a pole while exiting City Hall with a fire engine and talking disrespectfully to another lieutenant.

    The monthslong investigation took a toll on Fellman and his family, his former attorney, Morris Weinberg, wrote in a letter to the fire chief in mid September.

    In the letter, Weinberg says Fellman "has had his life turned upside down." Weinberg complained of television newscasts about the investigation that "irreparably damaged" the firefighter's reputation and says his 12-year-old and 8-year-old children were pulled out of classes at school to be interrogated by detectives and the Department of Children and Family Services.

    The investigation was ongoing at the time of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and Tropical Storm Gabrielle, which followed days later. According to Weinberg, Fellman's requests to help with both events while on administrative leave were denied.

    "A veteran firefighter with such an outstanding record does not deserve the treatment that he and his family have undergone in the past month," Weinberg wrote

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    More like this poor guys family.

    Sorry, can't symp with him. I'm not a fan of zero tolerance because that includes such minor infractions as typing whitehouse.com instead of whitehouse.gov, but he knew what he was doing and he got caught.

    He knew the rules.

    He knew the results of violating the rules.

    He made the choice.
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    Thats right mr Mongo rules are rules.They try to make it sound like "hey they just implemented them lets go easy on this guy cause it used to be different."Well sorry he got caught but I would watch that lady like a hawk.If she was on my crew she would get transfered forthwith.Reason?Cause she is snooping under the mattresses! Can we say lawsuit queen! Sorry all my opinion and I hate people like that more than Mongo hates zero tolerance.That one line brought up the red flag.But before anyone can say I am biased I would be the same if it was a guy doing it so dont go therer.Now that I have covered my rear I would like to say stay out of my bunk jk all have a safe day.

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    thats true its more poor family. I wonder if he could say he was only reading it for the story's and not looking at the pictures?

    The fire service is changing or has changed sence most of our fathers were firefighters. I can remember going into my dads station and seeing a blow up doll with turn outs on sitting in the corner.

    And trucky is right about whitehouse.com, I mean its just pictures and if someone cant take it dont look. I also remember sometime back someone I know got in trouble for telling a lude joke.

    And come on under the bed, did he not learn its the first place people look, next time get a false bottom for the locker and put it there.

    AND NOTE TO ALL:
    If you ever find yourself working with Paramedic Lori Kordecki watch what you say and do!

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    I'd have to agree with the last couple of posts. When I read

    "Kordecki turned over the use of the computer to Fellman and later returned to the terminal to find pornography Web sites listed in the computer's history file."

    My first thought was "tattletale!" For sure, the guy set himself up by consciously violating a city policy. If the LT had left the page up on the computer for her to see when she came back, I'd say turn him in...but for this medic to look in the history file? She was looking for trouble. Not nice.

    By the way, I've done some scrambling to cover a goof myself. There are sites that buy domain names that are one letter off from popular sites, then put up those bottomless pit porn pages that you have to reboot to get out of. I typed in "drudgreport.com" once here at work and found out that it was one of 'em.
    Last edited by Quint1Medic; 01-28-2002 at 07:02 PM.

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    I agree she shouldn't have been snooping.
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    I agree that he knew the rules, and broke them.

    With that being said, people like that woman give females a bad name.

    It is one thing to have someone bring in a magazine and pass it around - or to bring up web sites and say - "hey everyone - look at this!" But for her to go looking in the history for web addresses that don't meet her taste..to save them and turn him in over it is ridiculous. She was not subjected to the pornography - she went looking for it. Same with the matress thing - was she changing sheets and came upon it? If not she is just a trouble maker, and no one I'd want around either of my departments.
    Susan Lounsbury
    Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
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    To save the files to get the guy in trouble, that's just wrong. It's too bad that he got nailed the way he did, but he did break the rules. Hate to stir it up but that's why women don't belong. I am sure I am gonna get nailed on that one. but I really think it is true. They don't understand men in a group. Anyone with a wife and a poker night will understand that. That's why when we go out to party or drink or hunt what happens stays where it happens. To put one woman in a firehouse with all men and for her to not understand the way it works. You're heading for trouble. Now that I have said that bring on the comments

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    "To save the files to get the guy in trouble, that's just wrong. It's too bad that he got nailed the way he did, but he did break the rules."
    Both very good points. We all agree.

    Haligan, why didn't you just stop after the first couple of sentences? Do you really think all women are incapable of understanding "what happens here, stays here?" You say

    "To put one woman in a firehouse with all men and for her to not understand the way it works. You're heading for trouble."

    That's one woman, not any woman.
    It's hard to be enlightened when you've got your head where it is...

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    Thumbs down

    The Lt. in this case is wrong. He violated a policy that as a company officer, he is supposed to uphold. The "we used to do that way" argument is not effective. We "used" to ride the backstep" and we "used" to have on the job training without a formal training program. That was then and this is now.

    Pornography, despite what your personal tastes are, should not be pulled up on departmental computers. That is showing poor judgement and if a company officer can not show good judgement in the house, how much better will it be in the field.

    Everytime somebody gets in trouble, their past accomplishments are pulled out of the file. I agree that if a stable employee has performed well, and has a good record, that should be taken into account. With the accomplishments, you have to bring out the bad as well. In this case the bad outweigh the good.

    As for the saving of files to get him, that is disturbing but he could have avoided it. It is simply his fault.

    I am thinking of his family and the twenty year career he put in jeopardy. A shame.

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    Thumbs down

    Humm, in order for her to save the files she had to go to the sites herself I would think. If this is truly a zero tolerance thing she should get the boot also. I have a few other opinions on the subject but I?ll keep them to myself for now??..
    This what I think and doesn't reflect anyone elese opinion.

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    Poor Guy? Well in most Departments, the Officer swings whether they are directly or indirectly involved. The reasoning here is, if it's your Butt, you'll be sure to keep the Troops in line.
    Other then the reasoning, an Officer, any Officer is charged with the responsibility of supervision. Now for the "Female"....all kinds of things come to mind, and without going into the depths, this is the 21st century, regardless of Tradition or Personal Feelings, every job has it's protocols, either aspire to them or don't come on. Remember every Female is somebodys Daughter, Girlfriend or Wife.....I doubt seriously if some Firefighter would hesitate to take a trip to their significant others workplace if some boob there was out-of-line.

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    I agree Susan, this Lori Kodecki is not someone I would want on my team. Her behaviour in this is almost as inexcusable as his. It has always been my policy to approach someone discreetly and advise them if I find something I object too. Normally this will work if it is done professionaly. Mind you, there isn't too much that I would complain about...........if I don't like it, I don't look, and if I find language or conversation offensive, I leave the room. It's been my experience that your co-workers quickly learn where the line is drawn and will police themselves and each other if someone crosses it. It's based on mutual respect.

    He blatantly disregarded policy on the use of Department computers for pornography, and he blatantly disregarded the policy of having pornography in the Station. Should he be fired? Based on the information offered, it doesn't give enough about his 20 years of work performance and whether blatant disregard for policy is normal behaviour for him or this is an isolated incident.

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    Halligan, you are right, you ARE gonna get chewed for your comment. And I am going to be the first one to chew you out.

    Whether or not women should be members of Fire Departments should be based on our abilities, OK?
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

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    Halligan, you are right, you ARE gonna get chewed for your comment. And I am going to be the first one to chew you out.

    Whether or not women should be members of Fire Departments should be based on our abilities, OK?

    The man knew that it was a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy, and zero-tolerance means just that-no tolerance, no matter what. Now, I can understand some circumstances, but with there being what was on the computer, this situation was no "accident." This was a blatant violation of a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy.

    As well, this man should be ASHAMED of what he has put his family through, espically his children.

    And don't blame the Paramedic-someone was going to find those files sooner or later.
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

    All the views, comments, etc expressed herein are mine and not those of my training program or my employer.

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    Quint, You're right. That is just one woman. And maybe my comment was harsh. And I don't have a problem working with women on a fireground or in the back af an ambulance. It's just sometimes hard when you're on your downtime and you have to tippy toe around. That's just me. But I will rtract my comment How about that, write this one on the calender

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    Haligan, to tell you the truth, I completely missed your first response, and good thing too, wow!!!

    Seriously, I don't think it's so much that women don't belong, but it's a certain type of woman that doesn't belong. To be honest, there were many a time when I and my female co-workers have taken a new female "out in the garage" and warned her about how things are. If you want a prissy proper environment, you're in the wrong job. We women worked hard for the respect we have based on our abilities.........and don't need someone to screw it up because they object to someone swearing or farting. Right or wrong, who can say, but it works for us.

    As I mentioned earlier, you earn your respect and it is afforded to you. The guys in your station know how far they can go, and it's a nice feeling when a new guy comes along and is "told" by the old timers that something is not acceptable in this station.

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    Thanks for seeing my point, H.
    Here's a tangential thought or two:
    Nobody should have to work in an environment that makes them uncomfortable, and that includes men. The "administrator's definition" of harrassment that has sometimes developed doesn't have much basis in fact. In some departments, there have been seminars on sexual harrassment, but not much practical application of common sense. In those cases, the usual administrative reaction is to squash anything that might possibly have anything to do with anything that anyone, anywhere that might offend someone, on this planet or any other conceivable planet. Sucks all the fun right out of it. That may not be how it was in the FL case, but you see what I mean. This job is stressful enough without having to watch everything you do and say, all the time. Women that can't tolerate the occasional fart, belch, or obscenity really need to go work in a bank someplace.

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    Haligan, its people(male and female) with ignorant views like yours that dont belong in the fire service.

    Lady.
    "Let every nation know..that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"---JFK, Jan.1961

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    Ok Haligan, I just saw where you retracted your comments so I'll redirect my comment towards people in general with ignorant views

    I'm with LadyCapn. If I dont like what someone is looking at, or talking about, I leave the room/area. I dont stress over it. I've worked in male-dominated fields my whole career, both in the military and in the fire service. I dont even notice anymore when the guys fart,belch ,cuss,etc and honestly, I dont care. As long as they dont endanger me or anyone else on the job and can perform their duties then we're ok.

    Lady.
    "Let every nation know..that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"---JFK, Jan.1961

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    firetrucker-
    When someone visits an internet site, the site that they visited gets logged into the history.....there is no way that the paramedic would have had to go to the sites to save them, because they were already recorded in the history from the first time the the guy visited it.
    Alisa Tappana, NREMT-B/CNA

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    Question Hmmmm

    I wonder if LT Fellman and Paramedic Kordeci ever dated.

    Porn rules!

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    Originally posted by littlemissemtstudent
    Halligan, you are right, you ARE gonna get chewed for your comment. And I am going to be the first one to chew you out.

    Whether or not women should be members of Fire Departments should be based on our abilities, OK?

    The man knew that it was a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy, and zero-tolerance means just that-no tolerance, no matter what. Now, I can understand some circumstances, but with there being what was on the computer, this situation was no "accident." This was a blatant violation of a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy.

    As well, this man should be ASHAMED of what he has put his family through, espically his children.

    And don't blame the Paramedic-someone was going to find those files sooner or later.
    I agree that the guy willfully disregarded a directive. He should face disciplinary action. But firing? That seems a bit strong to me - I think it has more to do with catering to the tender sensibilities, if you know what I mean.

    What the medic did was just wrong, though. It's one thing to actually witness someone looking at porn, and become offended by the images yourself; it's an entirely different thing to see indications that somebody may have been looking at porn (those 'black hole' sites have been talked about already here), and actively take steps to nail him by saving the history records. Remember, Miz Kordecki didn't actually see the 'offensive' material itself. There was nothing injurious to her beyond her knowledge that the LT had broken a department policy. To me, that's a mutt. Whether it's a female or a male mutt doesn't matter. That's a friggin mutt. And I wouldn't want to work with her. Kind of hard to develop that teamwork thing when you have to constantly watch your own back...

    That said, the LT was dead wrong. He knew (and was expected to enforce) the policy as a company officer, and he willfully disregarded the directive. But he shouldn't lose his job.
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    BOW WOW...for paramedic mutt...A day or two off..OK...Getting fired? I have seen much worse happen with much less discipline.

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    Thumbs down

    The Lt. was wrong. He violated a policy and he has had previous disciplinary actions. What if the porno was child porn? Does he deserve a suspension or termination? The point is that we don't know what he was looking at. Dismissal to the lou. His decision, he pays for it.

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